Comments for July 05, 2012 at http://hockey.dobbersports.com , comment 1 to 29 out of 20 comments http://hockey.dobbersports.com Sat, 18 May 2013 15:16:19 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/home-mainmenu-1/24-rambling/4749-july-05-2012#comment-21684 You have got to be sh*tting me. I look at those offers and I look at the trades completed for ovie in the forums and it blows my mind. The Ovechkin owner in my keeper league would consider all of these as 'interesting starts' but nothing substantial. Last season, while he was neck and neck for the championship (which hed won the previous two seasons) and in need of both defense and goaltending I made the two following offers: -Lundqvist for Ovechkin -Getzlaf/Doughty/Schneider/Smith (Brendan)/8th overall pick He barely considered either....seriously, I don't understand how some of the posters in the forums are requesting advice on if they're giving up too much for Ovie because they're losing Sam Gagner and Brent Burns. I wish I had that problem... - the_walrus Thu, 05 Jul 2012 18:22:57 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/home-mainmenu-1/24-rambling/4749-july-05-2012#comment-21682 As an Ovechkin owner, I would trade him for Giroux and probably Hall and Schultz. Although injuries will always be a concern with Hall. - bradp36 Thu, 05 Jul 2012 16:56:29 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/home-mainmenu-1/24-rambling/4749-july-05-2012#comment-21680 A couple seasons ago Ballard was trade to the Canucks and people were saying he'd be a 45 point defenseman and that Bieksa was gone. And now look. Gillis is smart and so there are reasons to believe that they did their due diligence here. Also, the underlying stats and metrics on Garrison are quite good, so that's a positive. I think that a tempered wait and see with him is likely the best response since it could go either way. He's certainly not on my draft list anywhere though. - doulos Thu, 05 Jul 2012 15:45:34 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/home-mainmenu-1/24-rambling/4749-july-05-2012#comment-21679 Lack of work ethic...defensemen have figured him out. I assume u mean Oates is gonna let him cherry pick again?... I take Giroux...thats it. - buck0198 Thu, 05 Jul 2012 12:05:50 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/home-mainmenu-1/24-rambling/4749-july-05-2012#comment-21677 First thing. Remember Ovy is young. He's in the early part of PRIME. Different leagues, create different values for Ovy. Salary, positional status, extended stats (which ones), goal heavy leagues... I'll yack with points only, and making him a LW. 1) Eric Staal + Justin Faulk No - Very far apart. LW means Ovy is equal to Staal last season. Then the upside thoughts. Faulk is a puppy with a short interesting track record. He'll have ups & downs. 2) Roberto Luongo + Joffrey Lupul Hmmm. No. Too much risk. Luongo is enough older that age could become a factor. Band Aid Boy Lupul has shown one interesting splash. Not enough security to get me going. 3) Claude Giroux Maybe. For the "Nervous Nelly" pull the trigger on this, if Giroux is a winger. Remember a year from today, when Giroux is a centre and Ovy has another 90 pointer under his belt, that you gave away your Ovy because you were too nervous. 4) Daniel Sedin No. Age factor is a discussion now. Sedin must CRUSH Ovy several times, to make it EVEN. 5) Taylor Hall and Justin Schultz No. Ovy is young. Taylor has hasn't proven he can do it yet (I'd like to get my fingers on him though) and Justin Schultz hasn't played a game in the NHL. Counting on Schultz for more than 30, as a rookie, is nonsense. Cam Fowler, MDZ and what other rookie D-men have broken the 50 point barrier in the past five years. Schultz is a bit older (21). The only other comparable coming from the NCAA in recent years is Smith. They're good kids. They both could become awesome. One could become awesome. They both could become steadies. In exchange for a proven Super Star in the early part of his prime... not a chance. Go get Ovy today. Now's the time. - JHM Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:21:28 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/home-mainmenu-1/24-rambling/4749-july-05-2012#comment-21676 I like the idea of trading Eberle for Weber only if the Oil can speak to him first and know he will sign long term. Trade Eberle for Weber then build a package with parts such as Gagner,Hemsky,MPS, 2013 1st pick to land bobby Ryan - Johner Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:07:40 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/home-mainmenu-1/24-rambling/4749-july-05-2012#comment-21675 I would take Luo and Lupul for Ovechkin. It seems to me that Luongo is going to move out of Vancouver. When he does, he will settle in with a team and system that will trust and support him - both on and off of the ice. At the end of last season, it did not look like the Canucks did either of these things ... I do not foresee Luongo staying in that system any longer, even to serve in a "mentor" role for any future prospects. Schneider has proven that he can stand on his own without that kind of support from a veteran at this point and can be trusted with the No.1 job without Luongo. Granted, this deal would be a lot easier to take [i]after[/i] Luo moves rather than go balls-to-the-walls with him. As for Lupul, maybe it's just me, but I enjoy watching him play. I have him in one of my leagues, and it was great to see him explode offensively before he got injured. Before this season, I thought of him as a rather quiet player and solid all-around ... I picked him up because he contributed to all stats even though he is a Band-Aid Boy. With the way he played this season, I'm keeping him for next and would take him in this trade for Ovi. - Kenzan Kanzaki Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:03:43 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/home-mainmenu-1/24-rambling/4749-july-05-2012#comment-21673 I have traded AO almost a year ago in a sim league for: Bryan Little, Travis Zajac, Keith Yandle and Brendan Smith + 1st and a 2nd in 2013 and a 4th in 2012 I got a lot of critics but id do it again! - stickboyy Thu, 05 Jul 2012 09:31:25 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/home-mainmenu-1/24-rambling/4749-july-05-2012#comment-21672 I'll add this to the "trade Ovechkin" topic being that I actually did move him during the stretch run in my partial keeper H2H league (16 players, keep 8, no more than 2 per position) this season... standard Yahoo scoring with Hits over PIM. Backstory: I won the league the year prior and was looking to be the first to repeat back to back as champion. I had a playoff caliber team but it wasn't nearly as strong as the year prior for a number of reasons. Ovechkin's scoring numbers being what they were, I wasn't snagging points stats as much as I had the year before (he was still point a game then, even if it was a down year at the time). Hits had been added for the first time in the '10 season and it was one of my biggest advantages. Other managers took notice and beefed up this past season so that was another area I lost ground on. Finally, goaltending, which was a strength in '10, turned to an achilles heel in '11. The only shot I really had to repeat was to make some moves to try to strengthen up for the playoffs. One area I needed help in, besides net, was RW. The Trade: Manager already out of playoff contention and looking to improve for next season shot me an offer with the following note: "For the playoff push." The deal was Kovalchuk and Kessel for Ovechkin. Notes: This was before Carlyle became the Leafs coach and obviously before Hunter quit coaching in the NHL (who does that btw?). Should definitely had known the Caps coaching situation was only temporary. On paper, this move should have improved all my present scoring stats but in reality I'm not sure it helped that much. I was bounced in the first round despite the trade. In retrospect, I believe I should have held off, faced the facts that I didn't have a winning team this year, and looked to improve for this fall. I don't think this trade kills me but if I had to do it again, hindsight being 20/20, not sure that I would. Potential bragging rights and ego clouded my judgement a bit. Of the trades mentioned in the ramblings, I'd consider Giroux for Ovechkin but Claude is probably a pure center for position eligibility going forward. In that case, probably best to stay with the winger. - bitterwingsfan Thu, 05 Jul 2012 08:48:44 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/home-mainmenu-1/24-rambling/4749-july-05-2012#comment-21671 I own Ovi in my main league (standard cats + hits, no salary cap) and I would not consider any of the above offers. Leafs2014 comment was probably the closest and I would have to really think about it. In my league he is typically the top player by a fair margin (excluding the recent blip). Really hoping for a bounce back with Oates behind the bench. - Southpaw20 Thu, 05 Jul 2012 08:32:09 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/home-mainmenu-1/24-rambling/4749-july-05-2012#comment-21670 1) No. Not in a league that counts +/- anyway as Staal always seems to be a -10 whether the Canes win the cup or lose the lottery. 2) No. Not with Luongo in limbo. Also, Lupul plays about 50-65 games a season, whereas Ovechkin plays 75-82. 3) Yes. Giroux is as good as anyone in the league right now other than a healthy Crosby 4) Yes. Ovechkin may have the upside over D Sedin, but he also has more downside. 5) No. Taylor Hall has yet to get through a season or produce at an All-Star clip for any considerable length of time. Also, there have been way too many defensemen to come into the league with great fanfare and proceed to do nothing much offensively (Larsson, Hedman, Gilroy, etc.). - Isle B. Thu, 05 Jul 2012 08:31:39 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/home-mainmenu-1/24-rambling/4749-july-05-2012#comment-21669 Sf - Garrison is one of the best defensive defensemen in hockey. http://blogs.theprovince.com/2012/07/03/garrison-quiet-force-to-be-reckoned-with/ - angus Thu, 05 Jul 2012 08:08:12 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/home-mainmenu-1/24-rambling/4749-july-05-2012#comment-21668 I actaully just aquired Ovy in my league for Jonas Hiller, Marian Gaborik and my first pick 11th overall out of 12. - Leafs2014 Thu, 05 Jul 2012 08:06:34 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/home-mainmenu-1/24-rambling/4749-july-05-2012#comment-21667 RyJo put on 15 lbs? Is that even possible within this time-span? I dunno about the stats but I still see Garrison as having an avg defensive game, willing to be proved wrong though. - Sportfreunde Thu, 05 Jul 2012 08:02:36 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/home-mainmenu-1/24-rambling/4749-july-05-2012#comment-21666 I own Ovi in both my leagues. I would take Giroux for him 1 for 1 in both i believe but only because they are both cap leagues and that extra money goes far. If they were cap leagues i wouldn't take any of those options. - leaftodd Thu, 05 Jul 2012 07:35:57 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/home-mainmenu-1/24-rambling/4749-july-05-2012#comment-21665 It seems like the same people gushing over the "great value" of contracts like Bryan Allens are nit-picking the Garrison contract apart and I am confused by it. I like Allen, but through observation and advanced stats I think Garrison is as good defensively, and for the past 2 years has been at the very high end in the league, far from a dime-a-dozen 2 million dollar typical #4-5 that folks are describing adn comparing him to (he was 1/2 of one of the best shutdown tandems in the league 2 years ago with Mike Weaver of all people). So I guess the 1st point is: he is far better defensively than he is being given credit for, while folks over-focus on the unlikeliness of reproducing his offensive totals. And unlike Allen, he offers the real possibility of offensive production. If Allen, with zero chance of ever scoring 5 goals in a season is worth 3.5, how is an equal defender with the possibility of producing as well not worth an extra million a year? Even if Garrison never scores 16 again, which I doubt he does, hitting 8-10 would be a boon. What's more, without reghistering on the scoreboard at all he can create opportunities due to both his skillset directly, as well as the adjustment opponents have to make (that they don't have to make vs. a guy like Allen), that warrant valuation. So the 2nd point is: if a high end defensive specialist is worth 3.5, there must be some incremental value to offensive ability. A further consideration is that people are frequently comparing the contract to other's signed 3+ years ago, failing to consider what has chanegd with respect to the cap (and the contract's proportion thereof) and the market in general. Most of those guys would be getting big raises if they signed this year instead of a few years ago when the cap was much lower. It is a market with incredible inflation that fans always seem to be 2-5 years behind in their understanding or acceptance of. If Garrison can be half as productive on the scoreboard while being a Hamhuis-like defensive anchor, perhaps freeing up Edler to do his thing (which he only fully does when playing with a true anchor that he trusts) this contract will no doubt be full value. In fact, the value of full-blown Edler vs tentative, confused, why-is-Bieksa-my partner-and-what-is-he-doing-way-over-there Edler might be the ultimate measure of the contract at the end of the day. That said I'm not a fan of NTC clauses, for anyone other than a team's elite core few. That part is bush. - sanstanya Thu, 05 Jul 2012 07:20:11 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/home-mainmenu-1/24-rambling/4749-july-05-2012#comment-21664 Face - I agree, Eriksson and Benn were great together. Just thinking they may get split up again to spread the attack out. Just ideas. An Eriksson-Benn-Jagr line makes a ton of sense, too. - angus Thu, 05 Jul 2012 06:08:21 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/home-mainmenu-1/24-rambling/4749-july-05-2012#comment-21663 Derek Roy isn't a bad defensive player, sentium. He has averaged over 1:30 on the PK in the most recent four seasons, too. He was acquired by Dallas for his two-way play, not just his offense. I'll give you Ryder, but again it wouldn't be a "defensive" line, just one with less of a pure offensive role. - angus Thu, 05 Jul 2012 05:35:30 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/home-mainmenu-1/24-rambling/4749-july-05-2012#comment-21662 These two have been the first line for the better part of the last two years. Doubtful they will be split up and they will most assuredly play with Jagr. Part of the reason Joe went after Jagr was his play with Giroux last year. The hope is that he can do the same for these two. Roy plays a hell of a lot more defense than Ribeiro did which will take some of the difficult minutes away from Benn. Last year Benn played in all situations because Ribs didn't. Morrow will be pushed to the third line where he belongs. Surprisingly the lines in Dallas make sense. Should be interesting - Face Thu, 05 Jul 2012 04:55:52 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/home-mainmenu-1/24-rambling/4749-july-05-2012#comment-21661 I think you are going to see a lot more of Granlund on the wing. There is a lot of talk here in Minnesota about Koivu and Granlund playing together which makes sense since they played a lot together in Finland. And it remains to be seen how Bouchard bounces back this upcoming season but if he is healthy half way through the season I bet/hope he gets traded. - buffalosoldier66 Thu, 05 Jul 2012 04:36:10 +0100