Comments for 15 Points to Consider - November Edition at http://hockey.dobbersports.com , comment 1 to 26 out of 20 comments http://hockey.dobbersports.com Fri, 24 May 2013 15:19:08 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/jeff-angus/4087-15-points-to-consider-november-edition#comment-17551 I Agree 100% - that model is terrible. I only used soccer as an example to show that regulation ties don't seem to have a negative impact on fanship for that sport, and the shootout is constantly sold as an innovation that drives broader fan interest for hockey. I'm sure that it can, I just don't think it's required, or that it adds any true value to the game. Seems like a lazy way to expand the market (and therefore profits) at the expense of the actual integrity of the product. - Sanstanya Mon, 07 Nov 2011 10:17:05 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/jeff-angus/4087-15-points-to-consider-november-edition#comment-17550 I'm pretty apathetic when it comes to shootouts. 3 on 3 would prob be more exciting though. But anyway, I don't think soccer is great example for shootouts. They settle tied World Cup games with penalty kicks! At least the NHL only uses it in the regular season. Settling important games with a shootout (where it's so easy to score too) is truly crazy. You often see lesser teams playing for a tie and hoping to go to penalties. And that is soooooo boring to watch. - Lee Majors Mon, 07 Nov 2011 10:12:21 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/jeff-angus/4087-15-points-to-consider-november-edition#comment-17546 not even a debate for me. Shootouts are the lamest gimmick ever in a major sport since the glowing fox puck, adn that dind't impact the game on the ice just fans respect for it. Shootouts are just circus-sideshow pathetic. As others have pointed out, hockey is NOT the only major sport to have had ties, as soccer does the world over and doesn't seem to be hurting for fans. So there is ample evidence that ties in sports are not inherently evil. Also, as others pointed out, there are multiple ways to implement different point systems so that it is worth "going for the win" instead of playing for the tie. The tie was never the problem; the previous point system, in combination with boring clutch-and-grab hockey, was. In the larger context, unfortunately, they never gave the "new NHL" a chance to show how it could make the old game different - instead the league made 19 rule changes at once and now it's next to impossible to measure the effect of each. The biggest test of any rule change for me is intent: the loudest case I hear for the shootout is that it appeals to more people and therefore "grows the game." But if you have to make circus-like rule changes to attract new fans...well really, do I need to finish that sentence? If baseball's popularity was waning and the league panicked and implemented a home-run contest to decided games tied after 9 innings wouldn't you think "what a 2-bit league" and/or "way to sell out the storied tradition of your game?" I don't give a rat's ass about baseball but even I now that shouldn't be messed with. Why does hockey havhe to be the franken-sport? Highlight the skill, improve player safety, leave the rest alone. Just because I couldn't let this go...3 on 3 is more "hockey" than a penalty shot because you're still playing hockey - passing, hitting, everything that normally happens in play. The acceptability of a penalty shot during game play relies entirely on the fact that the call is only made when a player has made an infraction that stopped a scoring chance on an outright breakaway (created during normal game play). So the guy gets his breakaway back. Basically tit for tat - it's a compensatory call. Just like a freethrow in basketball, which will never be used to decide outcomes of games because the NBA knows how stupid that would be. - Sanstanya Mon, 07 Nov 2011 08:13:38 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/jeff-angus/4087-15-points-to-consider-november-edition#comment-17542 Jeff, you had 96 ups when I went to do the 97th...it changed momentarily and then reverted to 96...tried several times..no luck. Dave - dave k. Mon, 07 Nov 2011 05:06:07 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/jeff-angus/4087-15-points-to-consider-november-edition#comment-17540 Well for starters he is -16... :) - Ryan Lenethen Mon, 07 Nov 2011 04:10:49 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/jeff-angus/4087-15-points-to-consider-november-edition#comment-17536 Might be splitting hairs, but I think the problem is not that a game ends up tied, it's that teams play for the tie. Even the shootout hasn't changed that very much. Teams will play for the regulation tie, then try for the win in OT or the shootout. I agree with 3 points for the win, 1 for a tie. Keep the 5 mins 4 on 4 if you want but no point for the loser. Nothing wrong with a hard earned tie between 2 even teams. - Draft Dodger Sun, 06 Nov 2011 17:08:28 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/jeff-angus/4087-15-points-to-consider-november-edition#comment-17535 3 points for a win (regulation or overtime), 1 for a tie (after overtime), 0 for a loss (reg or OT). Would love to see the top teams fear "dropping points" against the weaker teams, and then they throw everything at the latter in a tie game, in order to keep up with their rivals who just won their own game and took all 3 points. TOCanadaFan has it dead-on. Football (soccer) had it figured out eons ago. - B. W. Sun, 06 Nov 2011 16:47:23 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/jeff-angus/4087-15-points-to-consider-november-edition#comment-17534 I like shootouts. I find them exciting. I love it when players do sweet moves. Or when goalies make sweet saves. They should extend it to best of 5 rounds. - David Sun, 06 Nov 2011 16:17:21 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/jeff-angus/4087-15-points-to-consider-november-edition#comment-17533 Not a Carolina fan, but, as I've said before on the forums, I think Eric is struggling because his mind is still on Marc. Hasn't been the same since that hit, and I don't think it will improve until Marc does. I'm basing this on an earlier thought or tweet from EF I think, I can't find the thought so it must have been on twitter. Were it anyone else I'd file it under hearsay but EF is EF. And it just makes sense really... - Katharsis Sun, 06 Nov 2011 15:36:48 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/jeff-angus/4087-15-points-to-consider-november-edition#comment-17532 Oh, I forgot... I read a blog post over at Kukla's Korner, one by the immensely dimwitted PuckStopsHere. He wrote, and i quote, "The way he is playing, Marc-Andre Bergeron is a Norris Trophy contender.". If that's not the stupidest thing you've read all year, then please point me to whatever is even more stupid, because I could use the laugh. PuckStopsHere has made it into an art to annoy KK readers by posting shit that makes it obvious that he NEVER actually watches hockey and is the biggest statwanker ever. My jaw is still on the floor after reading that sentence. - sentium Sun, 06 Nov 2011 15:25:26 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/jeff-angus/4087-15-points-to-consider-november-edition#comment-17531 You left out the two biggest losses for the Wings from last year. Draper and Osgood were more important to the Wings' backbone than most non-Wings fans realize. They were great motivators and their voices are missing in the locker room and on the bench. - sentium Sun, 06 Nov 2011 15:19:01 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/jeff-angus/4087-15-points-to-consider-november-edition#comment-17530 Football (soccer) figured out how to deal with the tie years ago when they started awarding 3 points for a win. It's time hockey ditched the shootout and overtime and award 3 points for a win (giving each team only 1 point for the tie) - TOCanadafan Sun, 06 Nov 2011 14:53:35 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/jeff-angus/4087-15-points-to-consider-november-edition#comment-17529 Actually Heaton you are very much wrong on the gambling point, as you can bet on a tie, just line in soccer. - Big Ev Sun, 06 Nov 2011 14:47:54 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/jeff-angus/4087-15-points-to-consider-november-edition#comment-17526 Does no one remember the boring 1-1 ties that happened all the time prior to the shootout? There was no 'go for it!' mentality prior to the shootout, teams would settle for the tie and be happy with it. Seriously, people are so anti-shootout that they would rather go back to something that was a problem but it's viewed as [i]less of[/i] a problem. Come up with a solution since shootouts and ties are terrible. Having a winner in every game helps a lot of things. 1) Wins are better than ties. 2) You cannot bet on games that end in ties, whether or not you gamble is irrelevant, gambling is a mammoth thing in sports 3) It has nothing to do with bragging and everything to do with making the game better. All of the comments like 'well it was good for X amount of years!' Yes, a lot of things were in place for a long time, doesn't mean it was the best thing for it. I think a hybrid is the way to go, fix the point system, add some minutes to the overtime with less players and if all of that fails, go to the shootout. - Heaton Sun, 06 Nov 2011 11:41:22 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/jeff-angus/4087-15-points-to-consider-november-edition#comment-17525 I love how you NA fans cannot handle a tie :D "What you mean both teams scored the same amount of goals and have to share the points but but there has to be a winner, how can I brag to my mates at work if we tie" I hate the shootout and they should just go for more overtime but i don't see the problem with a tie. Believe it or not it might actually make both teams go for the win if they thought they couldn't secure an extra pont, 82 ties isn't going to get you enough points to make the playoffs. - UKflames Sun, 06 Nov 2011 11:34:53 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/jeff-angus/4087-15-points-to-consider-november-edition#comment-17523 Coin flip? - Jeff Angus Sun, 06 Nov 2011 10:38:48 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/jeff-angus/4087-15-points-to-consider-november-edition#comment-17522 It doesn't have to be a tie OR a shootout, just come up with something else. There has been a debate that if a shootout isn't good enough for the playoffs, why is it good enough for the regular season? So then the question would be if a tie isn't good enough for the playoffs, why would it be in the regular season? Why not go crazy and come up with some point system where the team that accumulates the most points in the post season would be considered the cup winner? Probably because that's a terrible idea, the Cup winner wins because they win games. The shootout sucks, ties suck and continuous OT is not plausible for the regular season. There has to be some way to get a winner every time. - Heaton Sun, 06 Nov 2011 10:15:17 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/jeff-angus/4087-15-points-to-consider-november-edition#comment-17521 Shootouts blow and only appeal to casual fans (like the poster below said, girlfriends and such). I would rather see a tie then award another point for a crapshoot gimmick like the shootout. - Big Ev Sun, 06 Nov 2011 10:10:30 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/jeff-angus/4087-15-points-to-consider-november-edition#comment-17520 I have to disagree with you about shootout. 1 - They are exciting. 2 - Even my girlfriend, who dislikes hockey, enjoys watching the shootout. 3 - Ties are the worst thing possible. I'd agree, though, to ditch the extra point given to the losing team. This makes no sense at all. 4 - Even during playoffs, I'd rather watch a shootout and not miss the beginning of the West game or get the opportunity to go to bed -- instead of falling asleep during the 2nd OT of Chicago @ Vancouver and miss the winner altogether. 5 - I don't see how 3-on-3 is more "hockey" than a penalty shots. Penalty shots are part of the game too, you know. 6 - What they did to deserve a penalty shot? Played well enough during 65 minutes, but not well enough to beat the other team, so you get a shot and you give away a shot. As simple as it is. 7 - Individual prowesses vs a team sport? How about free throws in basketball? Have you ever watched the final 3 minutes of a tight basketball game? Free shots are actually more important than the previous 57 minutes of the game. How about football OT, where a team does not have to score a TD, but only make it to the 35-yard line to have a kicker send the ball between the posts for the extra 3 pts. - lusshouse Sun, 06 Nov 2011 09:48:53 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/jeff-angus/4087-15-points-to-consider-november-edition#comment-17519 1. Perhaps, but there needs to be a guarantee of a winner and a loser, sports are meant to create that. 2. Not really. Detroit has played poorly at times over the lockout, this team is much weaker than the previous 5 or 6 but the struggle to stay good isn't lost on the organization. I understand the point you were [i]trying[/i] to make but to me, it implies the Wings haven't had any recent struggles, which isn't the case. - Heaton Sun, 06 Nov 2011 09:19:58 +0100