Comments for Indicators of Success: Goalies (West 2011) at http://hockey.dobbersports.com , comment 1 to 10 out of 10 comments http://hockey.dobbersports.com Fri, 24 May 2013 10:59:55 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/amato/4072-indicators-of-success-goalies-west-2011#comment-17452 [b]RE: James[/b] I've always based that on that thought. Or else I wouldn't be telling you to panic if you are a owner right now. If he's your 2-3 I'd stand pat, but as you said if he's your 1 then you're in big dodo. And the situation that you presented is exactly what I'm trying to get across. Don't just think that Halak is going to revert back to exactly what you projected him earlier in the year to do. I just don't want people burying their head in the sand and just thinking its only a matter of time before he reverts back to the saviour of your team again... - Ryan Ma Thu, 03 Nov 2011 11:39:23 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/amato/4072-indicators-of-success-goalies-west-2011#comment-17434 It's funny (to me) Ryan that your Halak discussion is now based on him being a #1 on a fantasy team? Maybe I missed that in the original article? I though the point of your Goalie articles was to assess the situation of the Goalie in real life and then let people apply that info to their league/team, and not the goalie situation on a fantasy team? Of course it makes a difference if Halak is your 1 or 3, but you can't cover every single league setup/rules as to how they can apply to a player in 1 paragraph. 'Poolies' should be able to use your info and make their own decisions. If anyone has Halak as a #1, then yes they are in big trouble. If they are going to try to fill that #1 with Brian Elliott, then they are in worse trouble :) He's my #3 goalie behind Rinne and Ward in a 1 year points league, so of course I'm not worried. If I had a roster with Halak, DiPietro and Greiss, first I'd reassess how I should be drafting in future seasons, and second I'd try to deal one of those F I took in the first 3 rounds when I should have drafted a Goalie :) - james Thu, 03 Nov 2011 03:57:53 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/amato/4072-indicators-of-success-goalies-west-2011#comment-17431 [b]RE: ADP [/b] Can't argue that one... the thing is ADP doesn't represent fantasy worth to a roster. Everyone goes after the AO, Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos because of the "big name factor" but in terms of team importance a goalie seriously impacts your team much more than an single offensive player. Which is why they are always left to the later end of the first round/early second round. With that said, there's no goalie at the moment that's completely leaps and bounds better than the rest. If you look at the top 10 goalies that were drafted, statswise it's not really all that different where the stats can vary from week to week, month to month. I mean most poolies didn't even think about drafting the Bulin wall at the draft table, and now he's leading the league in terms of goalie stats... The only thing I guess I can add to argument is that you can still win a championship if you miss out on a top flight offensive player, but if you miss out on the top goalies, it's a different story. To each their own... - Ryan Ma Wed, 02 Nov 2011 23:08:24 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/amato/4072-indicators-of-success-goalies-west-2011#comment-17430 And yet Henrik's ESPN ADP is 5.1; Daniels' 2.1. Luongo: 10.2. (If I'm reading this correctly, Yahoo! ADP is Daniel 1.7, Henrik 6.3, Luongo 12.6.) So the prevailing wisdom is skaters before goalies. - Robert Wed, 02 Nov 2011 21:51:51 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/amato/4072-indicators-of-success-goalies-west-2011#comment-17429 [b]RE: .905[/b] Yeah definitely arbitrary. It mostly depends on league type, settings and number of players. I mean a 15-team roto league with just W, GAA and SVs would be completely different than a 8-team H2H league with standard 6x4 categories. So definitely take my comment with a grain of salt. I was also looking at historical data as well. Since the lockout, .905 pretty separates top30/bottom30... which is why it's just an arbitrary line. Definitely, how important are goalies is a major question that's on many poolie's minds. I think it's vitally important. No offensive player on your roster, I don't care if it's Ovechkin or Sedin, has a much importance as a goalie (if given relatively balanced 70/30, 60/40 skater/goalie stats). What you have to keep in mind is your goalies might play 5-8 times a week but they control 30-40% of the stats. If you think about all of your offensive players, you might have 30-40 players that control 60-70% of your stats... If you look at a lot of the "winning" teams right now, they probably own Khabibulin or Quick... probably to a much higher percentage than those who own Ovechkin or Sedin. Would I ever trade Sedin for Ward? probably not, but what you have to keep in mind is that you gotta compare apples to apples as well. Sedin is arguably one of the best fantasy offensive players to own. Ward is a good, but not the best goalie to own. If you asked me Sedin for Lundy, or Sedin for Luongo... that'd be a no brainer. Goalies before skaters 100% of the time. - Ryan Ma Wed, 02 Nov 2011 21:05:34 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/amato/4072-indicators-of-success-goalies-west-2011#comment-17428 [b]RE: James [/b] Definitely I do agree with you that because of the salaries they'll continue to get starts on their respective teams. The problem is whether those starts are going to be of the variety that will help your fantasy team or hurt it. Halak is a much better goalie than what his numbers currently are. The question is whether or not they are good enough to carry your fantasy team as a number one goalie or not. A lot of poolies invested in him as a number one, right now they're probably hurting right now. What I'm saying is don't continue to bury your head in the sand and think that all is going to be well, now is probably the time to think about trading for a true number one and sliding him back down as a number two (support type goalie). If you continue to try to slot him in as a number 1 you could be in trouble. - Ryan Ma Wed, 02 Nov 2011 20:48:12 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/amato/4072-indicators-of-success-goalies-west-2011#comment-17427 [b]RE: Quick[/b] I don't think Bernier will ever outright claim the number 1 job, but I think he will challenge if given the opportunity. Right now you just can't stop playing Quick because of his "hot streak", but that streak has to end sometime... The problem with him is that he hasn't earned Luongo, Kipper, Lundy, Miller status where after a bad game, the coach will still call his number. A string of 2 or 3 bad outings and I wouldn't be surprised to see the pendulum swing the other way... That's the only problem with Quick, he lacks that immunity clause... - Ryan Ma Wed, 02 Nov 2011 20:43:56 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/amato/4072-indicators-of-success-goalies-west-2011#comment-17425 .905? Quite arbitrary. Out of 43 goalies tracked by ESPN for the 2010-11 season, only 8 had a SV% lower than .905. The top 20 goalies this year range from Khabibulin at .960 to Vokoun at .920. So, in my 10-team league, that number will lose you games. In fact, no one has a SV% that low. The importance of goalies raises a general fantasy hockey question: are goalies as important to fantasy hockey as quarterbacks are to fantasy football? Would you ever trade Cam Ward for Daniel Sedin (#6 and #8 on the ESPN player rater)? How about Ward for Kane (#6 for #37)? I'm not sure I'd ever trade Tom Brady for Calvin Johnson (#4 for #8). - Robert Wed, 02 Nov 2011 19:37:56 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/amato/4072-indicators-of-success-goalies-west-2011#comment-17410 Just to be clear, my comment was based on the whole season...I'll never understand why players get touted AFTER they put up stats, not saying you didn't 'tout' him correctly, I'm just generalizing. Kudos to anyone that added Elliott 2 weeks ago, but I don't see the point in adding Elliott now when he's most likely to NOT keep starting every game. All I was pointing out what that Halak has 3 years left on his deal (he's also the 3rd highest paid Blue), so EVENTUALLY he will be getting the bulk of the starts. "Eventually" could be tomorrow, or in 2 weeks, but it will happen (barring injury). Same with Khabiboulin...even when he returns to his previous form, the Oilers will keep rolling him out due to that contract...only injury prevented that from happening the last few years...awesome column BTW, I am a fan :) - james Wed, 02 Nov 2011 04:30:40 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/amato/4072-indicators-of-success-goalies-west-2011#comment-17407 Don't always agree with your analysis, Ryan, but I take in every word you write. Truly appreciate the effort and depth of analysis you put into your articles. One thing I do wonder about is the Dekanich factor in CLB. You caught me by surprise on the Conklin recommendation but upon thinking more, I think you are right that he is a hold. I personally don't think Bernier has a snowball's chance in hell of taking over the LA starter's job this year. Quick is too good and producing over a long period now to get knocked out of the box, in my opinion. - Shoeless Wed, 02 Nov 2011 03:22:26 +0100