Comments for Reality Check, Part 2: A Case for the Defence at http://hockey.dobbersports.com , comment 1 to 12 out of 12 comments http://hockey.dobbersports.com Fri, 24 May 2013 06:41:47 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/hoos/4012-reality-check-part-2-a-case-for-the-defence#comment-17246 Hey guys. When creating my local fantasy league I searched long and hard for a stat that could help make a shut down defenseman relevant in fantasy hockey. What I came up with is Time on ICE (TOI) and I have this stat count for defensemen only. This allows a top end defensive defenseman that may not light up the score sheet (yet is relied heavily on by his team) to make an impact in fantasy hockey. Having it only count for defensemen also helps balance the importance between Dmen and forwards (just like the real game) - Nick Porter Sun, 23 Oct 2011 14:18:59 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/hoos/4012-reality-check-part-2-a-case-for-the-defence#comment-17001 I think it's an interesting idea, but I'm guessing that most poolies would find it too complicated. Plus, if the major pool hosting platforms don't have it, most fantasy leagues would not be able to use it. - angelofharlem (Glen) Tue, 11 Oct 2011 08:41:21 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/hoos/4012-reality-check-part-2-a-case-for-the-defence#comment-16999 Good point.... Like most things it would probably be better as a hybrid. I could try to make a weighted +/- stat that takes into account the team but puts more weight on the player... Kesler at +30 would be better then Grabner on the Islanders at -3 but Nielson at +20 on the Islanders would be worth more (random numbers pulled from a hat. - Austin Tue, 11 Oct 2011 08:30:59 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/hoos/4012-reality-check-part-2-a-case-for-the-defence#comment-16981 Never been a big fan of team adjusted stat, because it punishes a player for playing with good teammates. A team adjusted +/- would greatly benefit the best defensive player of the Senators or the Panthers, which would see a huge bonus in the +/-, versus somebody like Kesler or Datsyuk, who wouldn't see a big bump, because the GM built a capable team. Unless the team adjusted +/- would be added as a new category next to the old +/-, so Datsyuk could rule the old +/- and some player on a bad team can rule the adjusted +/-. For my league, I would use blocked shots and +/-. I know +/- is more of a team stat, but I think there's a bigger element of team play in a good defense, if only because all shots end up with the goalie, so I don't really mind a stat that is team related. I think shorthanded goals is too much of a crapshoot, and I like some other crapshoot stats better. And like all the shorthanded stats, it rewards a player for playing on a team that takes many penalties (especially shorthanded time on ice). I kinda like takeaways and giveaways, but not as a simple number. Giveaways especially is going to punish first pairing of defencemen, because the plays many minutes and usually faces the best line from the other team. If Chara and Seabrook plays 8 minutes more per game than a forward, the will give the puck away more. Maybe as an average? Giveaways per 60 minutes? Could work. - Louis-Alexandre Jalbert Tue, 11 Oct 2011 04:33:56 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/hoos/4012-reality-check-part-2-a-case-for-the-defence#comment-16972 I actually really really like that idea... It is relatively easy to track and eliminated the biggest minus about +/- (pun intended) - Austin Sun, 09 Oct 2011 13:30:55 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/hoos/4012-reality-check-part-2-a-case-for-the-defence#comment-16965 I haven't found a site to track it, but I like the idea of team-adjusted +/-. Find the goal differential between Goals For and Goals Against per team, then add the player's individual +/-. Using the Alfredsson example, Ottawa's GF last year was 192. GA was 250. This gives a team total of -58. Ouch. +/- wise, Alfredsson was -19 last year. That means he was 39 points above the team's GF/GA average. So we'll call him +39. Now this is arguably a worse idea than regular +/- because you have to track team performance with individual performance all season. Not to mention purists may say that comparing individual +/- with GF and GA differential is not realistic. But I like it because I think it gives a more accurate picture of each player's value to their team, especially on crappy teams - it almost becomes worth owning a Panther. My 2 cents. - Krysmo Sun, 09 Oct 2011 06:46:02 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/hoos/4012-reality-check-part-2-a-case-for-the-defence#comment-16964 Thanks for the insight Santo! I don't get to watch the Caps on a regular basis, so I was going by his rep. It's certainly not hard to find other examples of poor defensive players with good +/- that comes from playing on a good team. - angelofharlem (Glen) Sun, 09 Oct 2011 06:07:46 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/hoos/4012-reality-check-part-2-a-case-for-the-defence#comment-16960 Great article Glen! Only one small nit, despite appearances Alex Semin is actually a very good (and certainly underrated) two-way player. In fact many Caps fans feel that Boudreau doesn't use him enough on the PK given his skill on the other side of the puck. Of course, he has a reputation for lackadaisical approach to the game (witness the Matt Bradley comments and subsequent "Does Sasha Care?" campaign by Chesnokov on Twitter) and perhaps that's what has created this assumption that he is not good defensively. - Santo (aka Ross10019) Sun, 09 Oct 2011 02:44:38 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/hoos/4012-reality-check-part-2-a-case-for-the-defence#comment-16958 Austin: I suppose using giveaways/takeaways per 60 minutes eliminates ice time as a factor. But as I look at the leaders in these categories, something still seems fishy to me. Having 5 Isles in the top 14 in the league in takeaways tells me that the stat isn't completely objective, and that flaw would carry over even when it's averaged over ice time. But again, that's just my opinion. I can see the attraction in using these categories. William: I thought about addressing SH TOI in the article, but it was getting a little long. I can see some value in this stat too, because in theory the best defensive players get the most shorthanded ice time. But personally I try to avoid time on ice as a stat, because TOI doesn't necessarily mean a player has done anything good with that time. The top penalty killers on the league's worst penalty kill get similar TOI to the top guys on the league's best penalty kill. TOI ignores their actual proficiency on the kill and rewards them regardless of results. Just my thoughts... - angelofharlem (Glen) Sat, 08 Oct 2011 22:27:54 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/hoos/4012-reality-check-part-2-a-case-for-the-defence#comment-16957 We use Short handed time on ice as a stat to reflect pking. Downside is goaltenders end up getting the full two minutes in most formats. our 30 team 67 roster 50 contract H2H keeper uses the following catagories 16 cats. Goals, Assists, Points, GWG, SOG, Shtoi, Pims, Hits, Bs, Stpts, +/-, W, SO, GAA, SV%, FOW. - William McBride Sat, 08 Oct 2011 22:10:38 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/hoos/4012-reality-check-part-2-a-case-for-the-defence#comment-16956 What problem would you have with Takeaways and Giveaways per 60 min being used as a category? - Austin Sat, 08 Oct 2011 22:01:24 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/hoos/4012-reality-check-part-2-a-case-for-the-defence#comment-16955 I'll be the first to answer my own question and say that Ryan Kesler epitomizes everything I love about hockey. Far and away my favourite player, and the main catalyst in turning me into a Canucks fan after I moved to Vancouver. - angelofharlem (Glen) Sat, 08 Oct 2011 19:37:59 +0100