Comments for David Backes vs. Scott Harnell at http://hockey.dobbersports.com , comment 1 to 5 out of 5 comments http://hockey.dobbersports.com Sat, 25 May 2013 19:33:46 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/laidlaw/3941-david-backes-vs-scott-harnell#comment-16268 Thanks for the response guys! Chad, I feel that positions are more or less dictated by where you start on the draw. Hockey is fluid enough that forwards are going to move around a lot. It is blatantly obvious that Backes has been playing center for a long time. The Zetterberg example is a good one, and it is actually one that has annoyed me for a while. When Datsyuk and Zetterberg play together Zetterberg has always been the one taking the majority of the draws yet he is the one who has always had LW eligibility. Theirs is a case where you could justify granting them both dual eligibility as Yahoo! did last season because they move around in the lineup enough to warrant it. Ultimately my point is that Backes is a center and eventually pool providers will all catch on. In keeper leagues this is important because a move hurts his value. It's a matter of when not if. David, for what it is worth I actually think I knocked Backes down a peg or two in this article and maybe just maybe I'll have you on the Hartnell train. Mjlees, I don't like to expand my analyses beyond the standard 6x4 setup that you will find in many leagues. That is why I don't include things like Hits and FOW but they are definitely game changers. In that setup Backes wins by a landslide. Now being on CBS does change the perspective a bit because as you mentioned Backes is properly listed as a centerman. I think even with relative values considered I would take Backes in that setup but it is again a lot closer than I think Hartnell receives credit for. I disagree with your statement that St. Louis was one of the worst teams in the league though. Their record doesn't do them much justice and even if you rated them only on that record there were still 10 teams worse than them last season. That's a third of the league and a sizable portion. Take it one step further and look at the actual goals for/against numbers where St. Louis was a +6 for the season. That would put them 16th in the league ahead of two playoff teams (Anaheim and Phoenix) and would have them in the playoffs if that was the measure. What that indicates is they were a bit unlucky and definitely hindered by playing in the toughest division in hockey. Also my point about Backes' Plus/Minus stands and that is that it is an abberation. It is not something you can count on him maintaining year after year. It was awesome last year, but lighting won't strike twice. - steve laidlaw Wed, 07 Sep 2011 17:59:09 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/laidlaw/3941-david-backes-vs-scott-harnell#comment-16266 One thing you didn't compare is the number of hits. Backes 213 to Hartnell's 168 in 2010. I use CBS for my pool and they list Backes as a centre. We count Faceoffs won too so Backes as far as I'm concerned 506 to Hartnell's 5, makes him worth the spread. 32 plus/minus is nothing to sneeze at when you play for one of the worst teams in the league. - mjlees Wed, 07 Sep 2011 16:48:24 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/laidlaw/3941-david-backes-vs-scott-harnell#comment-16259 Greeeeeatt....just as I was hoping Backes would be under the radar...dobberhockey goes out and advertises him. - David Wed, 07 Sep 2011 10:02:23 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/laidlaw/3941-david-backes-vs-scott-harnell#comment-16256 Steve, I just wanted to take a second and give you props for this article. Simply put, this is the best and most eye-opening article I have read on Dobberhockey and I have read some dandies over the years. I am one those knuckleheads who continuously under-values Hartnell. I love the analysis you provided as well in the cage match articles. Keep up the great work! - Dale Kenzle Wed, 07 Sep 2011 08:54:01 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/laidlaw/3941-david-backes-vs-scott-harnell#comment-16255 Faceoffs can certainly be an indicator, but not necessarily the end all. Last year when Zetterberg and Datsyuk were on the same line, Z would take the draw, then shift over to the left. So the majority of his Time on the Ice (during those shifts) were on the left side. Who cares if he took the faceoff because of dats wrist issues? Meaningless stat in that particular case. Now, before you jump on me. Zetts also played Center full time many many shifts. I'm just saying, don't put too much weight on draws making someone a center. - Chad Burly Wed, 07 Sep 2011 08:39:50 +0100