Comments for Upheaval in Philadelphia! Jeff Carter and Mike Richards - Gone! at http://hockey.dobbersports.com , comment 1 to 32 out of 20 comments http://hockey.dobbersports.com Thu, 23 May 2013 14:52:20 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/19-nhl-deals/3753-upheaval-in-philadelphia-jeff-carter-and-mike-richards-gone#comment-14844 And oh yeah if you think I overpaid Nodl and Powe, take .25 off each of them and give Leino 3.5M - JULES Fri, 24 Jun 2011 11:37:29 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/19-nhl-deals/3753-upheaval-in-philadelphia-jeff-carter-and-mike-richards-gone#comment-14843 FORWARDS (13) James Van Riemsdyk ($1,654,166) Claude Giroux ($3,750,000) Jakub Voracek ($2,500,000) Scott Hartnell ($4,200,000) Daniel Briere ($6,500,000) Ville Leino ($3,000,000) Kris Versteeg ($3,083,333) Brayden Schenn ($3,110,000) Andreas Nodl ($1,300,000) Darroll Powe ($1,150,000) Blair Betts ($700,000) Wayne Simmonds ($1,500,000) Jody Shelley ($1,100,000) DEFENSEMEN (6) Matt Carle ($3,437,500) Chris Pronger ($4,921,429) Braydon Coburn ($3,200,000) Kimmo Timonen ($6,333,333) Andrej Meszaros ($4,000,000) Sean O'Donnell ($1,200,000) GOALTENDERS (2) Ilya Bryzgalov ($5,666,667) Sergei Bobrovsky ($1,750,000) SUMMARY (totals compiled without the bonus cushion) ROSTER SIZE 21 SALARY CAP $64,300,000 CAP PAYROLL $64,056,428 BONUSES $3,815,000 CAP SPACE $243,572 - JULES Fri, 24 Jun 2011 11:09:40 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/19-nhl-deals/3753-upheaval-in-philadelphia-jeff-carter-and-mike-richards-gone#comment-14841 Simmonds is the type of player who is the same on all teams - that 2nd/3rd line gritty, energy guy who helps in all the categories. Unless it's Crosby, I don't see linemates pushing him up or down in terms of points. Josh - couldn't agree more. But I don't believe Richards was Richards back when he was 19. - Dobber Fri, 24 Jun 2011 10:39:31 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/19-nhl-deals/3753-upheaval-in-philadelphia-jeff-carter-and-mike-richards-gone#comment-14840 Once again a great read guys. I do have to question one point though. If Philly is getting word that Schenn is the next Mike Richards then they better re-evaluate things. I live in Brandon and have seen Schenn play for 3 years with the "Wheat Kings" and he is no Mike Richards. Well he is.... without the hustle, heart, leadership, toughness, and physical play. Schenn just doesn't have that edge. I think Schenn will be a great scorer in the NHL with some grooming but he will not bring what Mike Richards brings to a team. I don't really think Philly wanted to do this deal but had to due to locker room issues. I mean they just signed Carter to a 11 year deal this past season and Richards to a 12 year contract extension is 07. Why sign guys long term and then trade them especially when you slapped the 'C' and 'A' on them so quickly.. - josh Fri, 24 Jun 2011 07:19:36 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/19-nhl-deals/3753-upheaval-in-philadelphia-jeff-carter-and-mike-richards-gone#comment-14834 I think unlikely since they now have 2 top centers. Maybe they were the team who made an offer to Dallas for his rights, but if Richards refused to waive his NTC then they turned around and make the deal with the Flyers. Just a guess... - Martin Cloutier Fri, 24 Jun 2011 04:19:19 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/19-nhl-deals/3753-upheaval-in-philadelphia-jeff-carter-and-mike-richards-gone#comment-14830 Hey Dobber. Great breakdown. Whenever a trade is made in the NHL, dobberhockey is my first stop. I hate to add to the "what about this player" requests but I have Simmonds and I'm really curious as to your thoughts on him both short and long term. L.A. really trusted this guy and gave him an opportunity. I just wonder if the opportunity will still be there in Philly. I noticed you didn't list him as a Help or Hurt so I'm assuming you're saying it's a wash then? Sitting on a line with Schenn and Nodl certainly doesn't excite me any as I see potentially even less ice time and Schenn, while he has potential won't be putting up much next year at all and I don't think that line will see any important minutes. Any Insight from Flyer guys would be great too. Thanks. - lcbtd Thu, 23 Jun 2011 20:57:06 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/19-nhl-deals/3753-upheaval-in-philadelphia-jeff-carter-and-mike-richards-gone#comment-14827 And if I must show proof, here is proof that Williams/Brown/Kopitar were an actual line for much of the season: Frozen Pool/Line Combos/Justin Williams/2010-11 season - Dobber Thu, 23 Jun 2011 20:13:30 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/19-nhl-deals/3753-upheaval-in-philadelphia-jeff-carter-and-mike-richards-gone#comment-14826 Totally interchangeable, come on. I've seen both Williams and Smyth go opposite wing tons of times. - Dobber Thu, 23 Jun 2011 20:11:47 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/19-nhl-deals/3753-upheaval-in-philadelphia-jeff-carter-and-mike-richards-gone#comment-14824 Fzusher, nice breakdown. thats the economics of the deal but this trade wasnt just about trading for cap space and asset management. It was mostly due to internal issues and off ice situations. I think the econimics that you broke down are exactly what they looked to bring back for the reasons you stated but the decision to make the trades were different reasons. I am also not sure Carcillo is resigned but i do think powe and nodl will be resigned. I think these moves also make room to resign Leino which after these moves will be important to keep one line fully intact. - TheRook Thu, 23 Jun 2011 18:54:08 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/19-nhl-deals/3753-upheaval-in-philadelphia-jeff-carter-and-mike-richards-gone#comment-14823 Last 4 years in Philadelphia: Jeff Carter +58 Mike Richards +45 Q: Did Philadelphia really replace this with their trades today & Bryz signing? A: To be determined. I realize PHI had to make these moves because of locker rooms problems and NTC's kicking in... but... the players they received do not make PHI a stronger team. 2011-2012 Prediction: PHI 2nd in Atlantic (PIT, PHI, NYR, NJ, NYI) PHI 6th in East (BOS, WAS, PIT, TB, BUF, PHI, NYR, CAR) NYR & NJ are going to be nipping at PHI's heels in 11-12. - Pengwin7 Thu, 23 Jun 2011 18:41:13 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/19-nhl-deals/3753-upheaval-in-philadelphia-jeff-carter-and-mike-richards-gone#comment-14821 I'm likin' Voracek in Philly. He'll still fall to the mid rounds or later in one year leagues. - Ken Shultz Thu, 23 Jun 2011 17:23:56 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/19-nhl-deals/3753-upheaval-in-philadelphia-jeff-carter-and-mike-richards-gone#comment-14820 Before these two trades, Flyers have about 4.4M in cap room, into which they need to fit Bryzgalov, Leino, Simmonds, Nodl, Carcilo, and #6 D to replace O'Donnell (this is from capgeek, and it counts Jody Shelly and Ian Laperriere but not Matt Walker). They have no forwards in the system who are really ready to step in and replace anyone they trade (Legein? Wellwood? Kalinski?), meaning that any forward they trade for cap reasons would have to be replaced in that trade, or via free agency or another trade. Meaning they can't trade Versteeg for a pick and then replace him with someone else on the cheap. On D they'd have to sign somebody to replace O'Donnell or give his minutes to Bartulis and make Gustafsson the no. 7 (Matt Walker is still there, but his 1.7M cap hit cannot be absorbed). They also have no high picks with which to grab someone who can step right into the line up. Trading Carter frees up all but 0.4M of what they need to fit Bryzgalov in, Voracek fills Carter's roster spot on RW, and the pick gives them the possibility of drafting somebody they can put into the lineup. But they are still left with 4.8M in cap and now need to resign Voracek on top of Leino, Nodl, Carcilo, Powe, and O'Donell replacement. And if they sign the guy they pick 8th, that's a cap hit of about 3M. And they are still in the pickle of having to bring in a replacement for anyone they trade away, including Versteeg. So, the only way to get out of this pickle is to trade someone for 2 players - 1 who replaces the player you trade, but cheaper, and 1 who takes a roster spot from a more expensive player whom you can then trade for a pick. Richards, Hartnell (maybe), Giroux and JVR are the only forwards in the line up you could conceivably get two players for, but since Giroux and JVR are on ELCs you won't really save cap by trading them away unless it's for players under 2M, and there you are looking at big drops in quality. If you get a cheaper player for Hartnell, it is likely also going to be a drop in quality, plus it mucks up the Briere line chemistry. With Richards, however, you can afford a drop in quality to a third line C because you have Giroux and Briere. And because Richards is in his prime and sell high, the drop in quality in his case could be temporary - i.e., you could get for him a young C who would be a 3rd liner now, but has potential to move up in a few years (i.e., when Briere is out of gas). You couldn't get both a future Hartnell and another ready player for Hartnell. So the only real alternative to trading Richards is to try and trade a D for another, cheaper D + forward. Unlikely Carle or Coburn get you that. So the return for Richards exactly fits that bill. Schenn slots on 3rd line now, but should be ready to take over 2nd line when Briere is done. They get a 2.6M cap relief, more or less what they'd need to resign Voracek. Bringing Simmonds in frees them to trade Versteeg for a pick, and use the Versteeg money on Simmonds with a bit of change. Trading/dumping Leighton, plus that bit of change gives them the cap they need to resign Nodl and Carcillo. The remaining cap they have is what they need to resign Leino and leaves them probably about 0.3-0.4M short of resigning Powe. However, they now sit on 13 forwards without Powe. Trading/demoting/buying out Jody Shelly gives them Powe plus about 0.7M towards a #6 D. Laperriere's prospective LTIR adds another 1.2M to that, or gives them a bit of room to carry over to the trade deadline. And if enough of the above players take discounts for resigning, or if I've exaggerated what they resign for, to the point of adding another 1M in cap to that, that gives them 3M or so, potentially just enough to fit a D picked 8th overall as that 3rd pairing D. For the record, in the above I assumed Leino @ ~3.5M, Voracek and Simmonds @ ~ 2.5M, Nodl, Powe, and Carcillo @ 0.8-0.9. - fzusher Thu, 23 Jun 2011 17:08:40 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/19-nhl-deals/3753-upheaval-in-philadelphia-jeff-carter-and-mike-richards-gone#comment-14818 Williams is a RW Smyth is a LW So the projected depth chart is unlikely to be correct as is: Williams-Kopitar-Brown Penner-Richards-Smyth More likely is: [b]Penner - Kopitar - Brown Smyth - MRichards - JuWilliams[/b] - Paul's Coffey Thu, 23 Jun 2011 16:49:32 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/19-nhl-deals/3753-upheaval-in-philadelphia-jeff-carter-and-mike-richards-gone#comment-14817 Lombardi confirmed Smyth has asked for a trade and expects a deal done in next few days. Assuming it's not a blockbuster since the Kings will only want players from Edmonton that they don't want to trade, does that trade free up the cap space for a solid Brad Richards run from LA? Not doubting my LA bias, just a thought and potential change needed in LA section in this article in the near future. - Tim Rawstron Thu, 23 Jun 2011 16:24:06 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/19-nhl-deals/3753-upheaval-in-philadelphia-jeff-carter-and-mike-richards-gone#comment-14816 What determines waiver eligibility is # of games (regular and playoff) and seasons you've played. As per capgeek, Bob was waiver exempt for 4 years OR 60 games. Meaning, one game less last season and he can still be reassigned without waivers. Whether or not you started in the AHL matters no more as this is the off season. Last season's over. - fzusher Thu, 23 Jun 2011 16:23:52 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/19-nhl-deals/3753-upheaval-in-philadelphia-jeff-carter-and-mike-richards-gone#comment-14815 Vermette, I was wondering how this hurts Vermette? He was productive on the second line with Umberger last season and is still the top draw man on the team. Huselius/Vermette/Umberger is a decent 2nd line... Thanks, Rad - Rad64 Thu, 23 Jun 2011 16:01:05 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/19-nhl-deals/3753-upheaval-in-philadelphia-jeff-carter-and-mike-richards-gone#comment-14814 From what I've been reading from the various Flyers sites over the last couple weeks Bob has hit the 60 game mark and is no longer safe to be sent down via waivers. I don't know all the rules specifically for waivers so I may be wrong with things. I did see someone mention that as long as he was in the AHL before the season started he was safe. If this though is not true then the other talk about Bob being moved may be more realistic as his salary cap hit next year is close to the 1.7 mark apparently. Thoughts? - Hek Thu, 23 Jun 2011 14:43:44 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/19-nhl-deals/3753-upheaval-in-philadelphia-jeff-carter-and-mike-richards-gone#comment-14813 Yeah Bob has to pass through waivers because he played 60 games total last year. So unless they can figure out a way to put him in the AHL (not sure if there is a way during training camp) he will be the backup. So you can add the additional 0.20 to the cap level to make up the difference of leighton and bob. Wouldnt be surprised to see Leighton traded as a favor to him to give him another shot at playing in the NHL rather than staying in the AHL. Similar to what the flyers did with Boucher a few years ago. - TheRook Thu, 23 Jun 2011 13:47:56 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/19-nhl-deals/3753-upheaval-in-philadelphia-jeff-carter-and-mike-richards-gone#comment-14812 Thanks for the JVR update, Dobber. Great work, as always. Really cool to have this summary up so quickly, so kudos to you and the dobberhockey fellows. - Ian Thu, 23 Jun 2011 12:42:26 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/19-nhl-deals/3753-upheaval-in-philadelphia-jeff-carter-and-mike-richards-gone#comment-14810 Resigning Leino, Voracek, Simmonds, Nodl, Carcillo, and Powe, all FAs, could take 10-12M in cap. They also need an upgrade on Sean O'Donnell on the 3rd pairing. According to capgeek, after these deals the Flyers have 7.57M available. Versteeg and Leighton add up to 4.5, so they'll have about 12M to sign these 7 players. Laperriere's 1.17M will be off the cap on LTIR at the end of the summer if he doesn't retire but I am guessing they'd rather absorb the cap hit and let him retire if they can. Wasn't the word that Bobrovsky has to clear waivers to go to AHL? If they can demote him rather than trade Leighton that's 1.75M in cap saving instead of the 1.55M I factored on Leighton. I'm wondering if they can parlay their 8th plus something to NYI to move up to the 5th and take Dougie Hamilton to be on their 3rd pairing this year and get mentored by Pronger? - fzusher Thu, 23 Jun 2011 12:30:37 +0100