Comments for The Economy of Movement at http://hockey.dobbersports.com , comment 1 to 25 out of 20 comments http://hockey.dobbersports.com Mon, 20 May 2013 11:17:25 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/justin-goldman/3214-the-economy-of-movement#comment-9446 Hey Mike, I was wondering the same thing. Another aspect is length of playing career. From what Justin wrote about Roloson, it seems like he saying that the move everything to block a puck type of goalies have a shorter playing career. Does that mean their play will decline quickly? ie. get 40 wins one season and then quickly decline to 30 by the next and be out of the league within 2 more. It seems Hasak flamed bright but not for very long while Brodeur as been a slow burn forever. - Karbinkopy Tue, 02 Nov 2010 17:26:35 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/justin-goldman/3214-the-economy-of-movement#comment-9429 Justin: great article. Now a followup...can you take this minimal movement view and apply it to injuries? Are the move everything and anything to get the puck guys hurt more often or more injury prone or miss more games? - mike hess Tue, 02 Nov 2010 06:52:20 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/justin-goldman/3214-the-economy-of-movement#comment-9427 I think it's refreshing that he writes for the core fan instead of the casual one. That's what ESPN is for.I dislike the way they talk down to the knowledgible fan and consistently fail to go in depth to get more ratings. The writers on this site asume you have some decent working knowledge of hockey because that's who the fanbase here is!So thanks for going deeper inside the game and writing articles you don't get anywhere else! Next time i want a golden nugget like "draft Ovy,he's pretty good!"i'll go to the other guys.For articles like this one i'll continue to come here! - chip from pa. Tue, 02 Nov 2010 05:59:19 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/justin-goldman/3214-the-economy-of-movement#comment-9422 You are hardly a weak FH GM who doesn't understand what he is actually reading. So take yourself off the insulted list - there was no insult or aim intended. My point was that there is a lot of fantasy worthy information in Justin's stuff, but I can see where a newbie or someone who isn't very experienced would not reap much from his articles. We all process information differently, I have found that I have come to a place where I can take Justin's stuff in and have it make sense to me in terms of goalie decisions (I will admit I haven't always been there) whether it's drafting them, trading them or picking them up off FA. So for some of us at least, I think his articles are truly fantasy relevant. For me, he simply puts me onto good buys. I am currently sitting on Turco, Thomas, Neuvirth and Bobrovsky in a 1 year 14 team league that has been around for quite a while and there is some savvy in the league. I did not draft a goalie until round 5 or 6. I don't get to this set-up without Justin's articles and the Guild, of that I am sure. The season is about 12% done and a lot of hard goalie projections are pretty much out the window - so I am not sure where the alternative to Justin's approach is going to be any better in getting results. - Shoeless Tue, 02 Nov 2010 00:15:39 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/justin-goldman/3214-the-economy-of-movement#comment-9421 Being a graduate student in experimental psychology, I deal with statistics much more frequently than most people care to (more frequently than I even care to, TBH). In fact, in many ways this makes interpreting statistics a very mundane and simple thing for me to do. Furthermore, In the context of this particular article, I'm not even sure how an accurate statistical analysis COULD be conducted. Maybe if Dobber made Justin count the number of save-related movements each goalie made in each game for a week and plot them as a function of save percentage for the week, we'd get a more accurate picture of how movement economy is related to performance. Personally, Justin, I would like to applaud you for making such a strong case in the absence of "hard" data on the subject; the fact that you related your interpretation of play style with performance at all should be grounds enough for some praise. I think the point that posters seem to have overlooked thus far is that not every subject is amenable to efficient and accurate statistical treatment. Unless any of you would sit and count save-related movements for a week before writing an article about them, I suggest you consider that some statistics in fantasy sports just cannot be produced -- not for lack of effort, but for lack of data. You could ask that Justin only produce articles in content areas that are amenable to statistical analysis, but at the cost of a purported expert opinion. So, to the extent that you would consider Justin to be an expert on goal-tending, you ought to take his opinion seriously, rather than asking him for the statistics that come with it. To wit: If Wayne Gretzky were to call some kid a phenom, I wouldn't ask him to prove it; I'd just DRAFT the kid. Justin: I understand that you've got to cater to the masses, but PLEASE, continue to write like an expert because that's why people read your articles. Like you said before, if they want the stats behind it, they can dig 'em up themselves. - Jeff Mon, 01 Nov 2010 20:20:29 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/justin-goldman/3214-the-economy-of-movement#comment-9419 I still like my position best... If you don't like an article or author, don't read it... There's some content and areas of the forums I don't generally frequent because they don't suit my needs/interests. Obviously many people like the goalie guild stuff, others don't... As long as there's an audience for every piece of content that can be found here, I've got no problem with it (it's no skin off my back to pass over things that don't suit me)... That being said... if you're a vegetarian, would you go to a restaurant and order filet mignon and then complain when your meal comes and there's meat on your plate? Justin has always had this style of analysis here on dobberhockey, if it's not your preference, there's countless other things on the menu to choose from. That's why this site is great... Even freaky deeky vegetarians (figuratively speaking) can find something that suits them and can come away stuffed full (of knowledge and insight lol). ;) Dammit... I made myself hungry... What I'd give for a filet smoothed in crab imperial right now... :P - lanky522 Mon, 01 Nov 2010 19:59:25 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/justin-goldman/3214-the-economy-of-movement#comment-9418 Justin, I love your work and contributions to this site. I have learned so much about goal-tending from you that it has made me a better judge of what it takes to succeed at the position. I find your articles interesting from both a fantasy-hockey perspective and a real-life hockey perspective. As for Tokyo Repent, I understand what he is saying, but completely disagree. And that is the benefit of this site. Many different opinions, and it is ok to disagree. I'm sure you know this, but you can't please all the readers on this site all the time. No one can. Dobber knows that for sure. I've personally been critical of both him and Angus at times, but generally speaking I value their insight immensely and am more than willing to commend them more often than not. Keep up the great work and don't let the criticism get you down. - SeaDawg Mon, 01 Nov 2010 18:46:33 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/justin-goldman/3214-the-economy-of-movement#comment-9417 really not something i expected from a member who has been on the site as long as I have. i have to say I am shocked that the knee-jerk reaction to a difference of opinion here has been insults, or questions of my intelligence. justin has been very gracious about re-stating his position, which I appreciate, but some of the other comments here, wow. thanks to anyone who understands how to have a constructive discourse who commented here, - Repent Tokyo Mon, 01 Nov 2010 18:37:24 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/justin-goldman/3214-the-economy-of-movement#comment-9416 Justin's articles not fantasy worthy? Perhaps for a weak FH GM who doesn't understand what he is actually reading. - Shoeless Mon, 01 Nov 2010 18:32:19 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/justin-goldman/3214-the-economy-of-movement#comment-9414 Justin, Love the School of Block. 2 years ago I lost Brodeur to major injury and thanks to your article picked up Rinne which led me to 2nd place finish in my league. Last year Steve Mason was a disaster and thanks to your insight picked up Rask which saved my season. This year I've got my eye on Lindback thanks to your excellent write up. Our league has very limited free agent pickups allowed ( only 5 per year) and it's so helpful to read detailed analysis on why a goalie is just going through a hot streak or primed for a breakout season as I can't afford to burn my picks on the"hot goalie of the week". Your article is one of the few things that I look forward to on a Monday :) - Karl Janssen Mon, 01 Nov 2010 15:57:35 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/justin-goldman/3214-the-economy-of-movement#comment-9413 I appreciate the kind words and support...but there is a lot of legitimacy to what Repent Tokyo said. It is good to get some feedback on the stastical and more traditional fantasy aspects of covering goaltending for you all. I took his comment a little too personally and I apologized for that. I've discussed it with Dobber and he is a wizard at this stuff, and this is his site so I am going to add some elements to all future School of Block articles that will help bring some good fantasy-oriented elements to the site every monday for goaltending without losing any of what you have been getting from me!! Cheers and thanks for reading!! - Justin Goldman Mon, 01 Nov 2010 15:36:06 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/justin-goldman/3214-the-economy-of-movement#comment-9411 Awesome article, keep it coming, don't change a thing just because somebody feels like trolling the board. - Luffy D Monkey Mon, 01 Nov 2010 15:20:37 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/justin-goldman/3214-the-economy-of-movement#comment-9409 Hey Justin, Just had to say I love your stuff. Between here on Dobber and your Goalie Guild site you've help me develop the goaltending on my keeper fantasy team to the extreme. My league is extremely deep, 22 players, 43 farm, and when I picked up my team 3 1/2 years ago, my goalies consisted on Brodeur, Tellqvist, Hedberg and Reto Berra (betcha 2% of poolies know who he is). With your wisdom, one trade (Turco) and a whole lot of waiver wire pickups I now have a dominant force of Brodeur, Turco, Anderson, Elliot, Lindback, Holtby, Tokarski, Johnson, Dekanich, Bachman, and Cheverie. Tokarski is the only goalie I've drafted, and I think my goal tending drawer will be pretty stocked for years to come. Add to it that I won my league last year due to my powerful goaltending and I have to thank you doubly. Keep up the great work. - Karbinkopy Mon, 01 Nov 2010 14:33:23 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/justin-goldman/3214-the-economy-of-movement#comment-9408 Apparently about as hard as you not being able to just...you know...not slag a comment that you don't agree with as 'stupid'. - Repent Tokyo Mon, 01 Nov 2010 14:12:28 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/justin-goldman/3214-the-economy-of-movement#comment-9407 Justin please disregard that stupid comment. Please don't dumb down your articles to cater to the odd person who can't interpret non-statistical analysis. I read your articles and I find you provide a lot of fantasy advice. It's just not spoon fed to us; it's about reading between the lines. And how hard is it if you don't like something to...you know...not click on it and read it? - Leafs2010 Mon, 01 Nov 2010 14:10:10 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/justin-goldman/3214-the-economy-of-movement#comment-9406 Repent, Nothing wrong with the criticism. It did bother me, but you have been reading my stuff for a while, have commented on them as well. So I will look at this good advice - which it is - and do my best to bring in more fantasy and statistical elements. Because you are right, I should strive to cater to the readers. I am just confident that the more you understand the position, the more you can apply it to your own fantasy skills and be an even stronger manager than ever before!! That is my aim, to bring the elements that are non-statistical to light so that you can use it as a tool to enhance your own managerial skills!! I apologize for coming off so harsh, that was not my intent. And I appreciate your comments and criticisms. I rarely hear it, so when I do of course I will take it a bit personally =) Thanks!! - Justin Goldman Mon, 01 Nov 2010 13:32:22 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/justin-goldman/3214-the-economy-of-movement#comment-9405 with all due respect Justin, we are your readers. I am sorry if you find it 'ridiculous' that I would have an opinion about content on a site that I enjoy and that I have supported financially for years. As for your dismissal of what you term "fantasy coverage" - I would think it is perfectly obvious what "fantasy coverage" is to me - the quality analysis provided by Dobber, Angus, Ma and many of the other participants on this site. Even the forums. Are you insinuating that all "fantasy coverage" is the mindless regurgitation of stats and figures, some kind of 'grunt work' as you put it? Because if so, that seems like a huge insult to everyone on this site who have taken fantasy analysis to an incredibly high level rarely seen anywhere else. I do enjoy the insights that you provide in the ramblings, but I don't feel that the long form articles read as anything more than goaltending-specific hockey blog posts, and they stand out from the other content in that respect. I am sorry that you seem to have taken this so personally. I am a professional writer - I put out five to ten thousand words a week for clients - and I deal with comments and edits on a daily basis. If you perceive a comment about your work as an insult, then I would suggest you need to take a step back and realize that this is simply my opinion, posted on a website where discussion of different viewpoints is encouraged and celebrated. Your dismissal of opinions that do not agree with your own comes across as arrogant. - Repent Tokyo Mon, 01 Nov 2010 13:22:52 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/justin-goldman/3214-the-economy-of-movement#comment-9404 Goalies are difficult to judge future performance, and you need that to succeed with your goaltender in fantasy hockey. This gives us a little bit of insight. It makes you think, more than most fantasy articles, which goes a little against the grain where the columnist does the thinking for you, but that's fine for some people. I will leave you with this - I had an email on Friday from a reader who said...let me dig it up and copy paste it... "thank you for (having on your site) the goalie guild, that guy is amazing…and really helpful. Found Lindback that way. Can’t believe he is not a pro scout." It helped one owner pick up a goalie who helped him. And as long as that happens, this feature rocks. And nothing anyone can say will effectively dispute that. - Dobber Mon, 01 Nov 2010 13:16:00 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/justin-goldman/3214-the-economy-of-movement#comment-9403 Repent Tokyo and John Hillburg, No offense, but those are about the most ridiculous comments I've ever received. I'm not even sure why I'm validating it with a response, but you at least deserve to hear from me. You are right - they are only tangentially related to fantasy hockey. But when it comes to goaltending, what is "fantasy coverage" to you?? What do you want to see from me? A recap of statistics from every single goalie in the last week? A schedule of which goalie plays the most in the upcoming week? Who is on a winning or shutout streak? How much you should give up for Tim Thomas? Uhhh....no thanks. Not from me. You can find that casual, easy, boring, obvious coverage ANYWHERE. Just open up NHL.com, click on goalie stats, and everything you need is right there. Do that grunt work yourself. That's not why I'm here. If you want to become a better fantasy manager with goaltending, you need to UNDERSTAND THE POSITION. You need to know what makes a goalie tick. And what makes them tick is 90% mental. You need to understand trends. You need to understand what to watch for when your goalie is beginning to struggle or beginning to play at his best. And there's a reason why Dobber, Angus and everyone else on this staff continues to allow me to post School of Block on here. Because it helps. And it is an asset. None of my articles are "fantasy related" ... that's something I've known since the beginning. I do this on purpose!!! Why is that a good thing? Because you can get this kind of analysis anywhere else. Goaltending is the most valuable aspect of a good fantasy team. The web is diluted with people who have never played the position and know nothing about goalies going crazy breaking down stats and trying to decipher what goalie is going to do what next. But they are all COMPLETELY missing the point of what goaltending is all about. I work extremely hard to bring the angles of goaltending to this website that you will NOT find anywhere else on a fantasy website. And believe me, the content is valuable and has helped thousands of visitors on here for three years. My School of Block forums is another valuable tool for a number of managers, same with my contributions to the prospects guide and the fantasy guide. School of Block will actually TEACH you about the goaltending position. Everyone else who tries to cover goaltending from a fantasy perspective merely spits out stats that anyone can find. Excuse me for taking goaltending analysis for Dobber Nation to a higher level then the norm. If you can't find the value in it, don't read it. But that's an offensive comment, considing I've been writing on here for three years. I'm not going to water down my analysis. I'm not going to write stuff that you can find on other websites or you can find by doing a little bit of leg work. Onward and upward. - Justin Goldman Mon, 01 Nov 2010 13:12:25 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/justin-goldman/3214-the-economy-of-movement#comment-9401 my issue is that these articles read more like hockey analysis, rather than fantasy hockey analysis. there are many other places i can go to read about hockey analysis - many other blogs, mainstream sites, etc - but dobber is where i come for fantasy, and i feel that general content in this vein dilutes the site. - Repent Tokyo Mon, 01 Nov 2010 12:02:28 +0100