Comments for Overblown Incidents at http://hockey.dobbersports.com , comment 1 to 10 out of 10 comments http://hockey.dobbersports.com Sun, 26 May 2013 03:45:51 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/45-prospect-schopping/3131-overblown-incidents#comment-8558 I'm not asking you to pick between the choirboy and the bad apple. Given equal talent levels, give me the choirboy who won't give me headaches. Every time. But, you should not completely write off a guy because of some off-ice incidents and you should find out exactly what the guy did if you can. Then, it they're isolated incidents and not part of a pattern, then there's a chance you've got a diamond in the rough. It's obvious based on the reactions of many that guys with a blemish from an off-ice incident will be devalued. You can get these guys cheaper and if you do your homework, it will pay off. Some leagues are deep enough that you can't exclude the talented players with maturity issues. - Ryan Van Horne Sun, 26 Sep 2010 16:50:13 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/45-prospect-schopping/3131-overblown-incidents#comment-8557 Yes, it is important to judge every incident in itself and they are definitely something to consider, but when you do, you have to base them on the facts of the situation and not the media coverage. In many cases, they are overblown. Sometimes, it's the incidents that you hear little about that can be the worst, or perhaps the most telling about an indvidual. - Ryan Van Horne Sun, 26 Sep 2010 16:44:05 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/45-prospect-schopping/3131-overblown-incidents#comment-8556 Bang on! A+ for reading comprehension. - Ryan Van Horne Sun, 26 Sep 2010 15:38:57 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/45-prospect-schopping/3131-overblown-incidents#comment-8555 Sure, Kabanov's problems are not having a few beers, getting in a scrap, or picking up chicks, and he does seem like a nut job to me. But the point I was making is that the NHL is full of talented nut jobs who cleaned up their act enough after they were kids. Yes his character issues are a cause for concern, but they are not a reason to completely write him off -- that is, until he convinces you that there's no hope for him. When that point of no return occurs is a matter of subjective opinion, I guess. - Ryan Van Horne Sun, 26 Sep 2010 14:30:44 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/45-prospect-schopping/3131-overblown-incidents#comment-8537 @Hockey Hoser D. Flynn does a Hockey School in our home town run by one of my close friends. He was Kabbys coach if you want to know. A poker game and a few beers later, you can find out some pretty interesting stories. Really I could care less if you beleive me or not, just trying to help out those who may be looking at him in an upcoming draft. My suggestion is to stay clear, take what you want from it. No I am not a shrink but I have heard enough to know that he is like Zherdev with Alzheimers. IF he turns out to be a star, good on him. My money says he wont (not in the NHL anyways). - flaupmes Sat, 25 Sep 2010 08:27:13 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/45-prospect-schopping/3131-overblown-incidents#comment-8536 here's the problem with what you are saying: yes, it is normal for youngsters to break the rules. however, if you are asking me to pick between the guy who got arrested/kicked out of a program/caught doing something nasty versus his 20-or-so teammates who were disciplined enough to keep their pants on, not get drunk and do something stupid, etc, guess which ones I am going to pick? Probably the guys with discipline. Teams will give chances - to a point. Repeat miscreant behavior is not going to be tolerated. Some of the players you mentioned were kicked off of teams - that doesn't sound like tolerance to me, that sounds like someone burning through his chances. With so many players to pick from who aren't 'bad apples', there's really no reason to mess with those who are. - Repent Tokyo Sat, 25 Sep 2010 08:13:35 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/45-prospect-schopping/3131-overblown-incidents#comment-8533 Fzusher, you know I'm usually right on par with your comments (and usually look forward to your ramblings as much as I look forward to Dobber's or Angus') but I think the way you stand opposed to bullying and on-ice recklessness yet dismiss drinking and driving as a sign of immaturity is simply ridiculous. Driving while impaired is at least as serious as the other two examples if not moreso. It has the possibilty of killing somebody! Man, were you off base there . . . in a big way. imo of course. - lcbtd Sat, 25 Sep 2010 07:45:17 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/45-prospect-schopping/3131-overblown-incidents#comment-8528 I agree with Ryan up to a point, but also with flaupmes. The thing Ryan is most right about - judge each situation separately. An off-ice incident isn't automatic cause to drop someone. But it is a potential red flag that you can't disregard, but need to look into, and think about. And then there's a variety of things to consider. One thing i consider is 'is this kid an idiot'. Your standard underage drinking is no big deal. DUI shows lack of judgment, though that can be acquired with maturity. But it is entirely a different matter if the kid, while not drunk, tackles a police officer trying to detain a drunk friend (for example). That does tell me something about the player that is relevant to hockey. That's, for example, why I do see a red flag when a player is kicked off their college team for poor academic performance, because the breaks universities give their athletes means you really need to be dumb to flunk your program as an athlete, and that means you may not have the smarts to play the game at an NHL level either. Another key for me is 'does the player get it'. Does he learn from his mistakes, or repeats them. That's why I wouldn't touch Kabanov, and I think that's exactly flaupmes' point. Another question is 'which team is the player owned by'. It'd take a lot for me to get worried about Brendan Smith, because I trust DET to straighten him out. I'm on the fence on ANA (Palmieri). I wouldn't touch anyone with off ice issues (or attitude issues) owned by ATL, until I see marked improvement in how they develop players. Also, for me - and that's a non-hockey, non-fantasy choice - there are certain things that you just don't do, and I won't touch a kid who does them. I will not own Jon Merrill in a keeper because his off ice incident (pre-draft) was physically bullying a female student in his dorm. I wouldn't own Corey Tropp because of the on-ice incident that got him booted from his college program because he could have killed the kid he retaliated on (I own Conboy, involved in the same incident, because that's not the case with what he did then). Point is, judge every incident in itself, but do treat the off ice incident as somethign to look into. - fzusher Sat, 25 Sep 2010 03:34:50 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/45-prospect-schopping/3131-overblown-incidents#comment-8527 @ flaupmes I think you might be missing the point of this article. It's not the player's actions that are so bad (kids will be kids as pointed out by Ryan) but rather the reaction by the media and nay-sayers. Some hockey programs are stricter than others so the results of their policies might make create the perception a player is a "problem". Let's use the drinking beer example. Two players get caught drinking beer. One plays for the US NTDP and is kicked out of the program. The other player plays in the CHL and gets a slap on the wrist. The player in the NTDP gets media coverage because the punishment is bigger and more difficult to hide whereas for the player in the CHL, no one finds out outside the team. Does this mean the kid who was kicked out from the NTDP is a bad apple just because it gets leaked? I feel what Ryan is trying to do is advise poolies not to get too worked up about these players involved in "off ice incidents" because we do not know all the facts. This leads me to my next point about Kabanov. You sound like you're a Kabanov expert, I'm just curious to know how much time have you personally spent with Kabanov? How many of these incidents have you witnessed firsthand? Or have you just read about them? Also, are you an expert in regards to mental illness? Calling Kabanov a "nut job" would tell me no. Also I'm pretty sure that being late or forgetting stuff isn't necessarily a definite symptom of a mental illness. You are making incredible leaps in judgment by tying in irrelevant facts together. Just because he came back pale from his trip means nothing! The irony of the comments you make just further solidifies the article's point. Information also gets blown out of proportion so before passing along gossip, get your facts straight. - Hockey Hoser Sat, 25 Sep 2010 00:54:57 +0100 http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index.php/columnistsarticles-mainmenu-77/45-prospect-schopping/3131-overblown-incidents#comment-8522 From what I have heard, Kabanovs problems are not having a few beers, getting in a scrap, or picking up chicks, he is a true space cadet nutcase. Constantly late, forgetting directions (he forgot to bring his accreditatons to the Entry Draft and had to rush back to hotel)...things like that. He is a nutjob. Went on a vacation to rest his wrist injury and soak up some sun in the tropics with his GF, but came back pale as a ghost becasue he doesnt like the sun? I am not making this s*&t up. Snow will have to hire a shrink or a 24/7 personal assistant. I for one will stay far away from him at the draft. - flaupmes Fri, 24 Sep 2010 22:29:16 +0100