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  #21  
Old 01-06-2011, 03:55 PM
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Why is Keith so overrated here? He's been clearly overused in the past year and the Hawks lost lots of secondary scoring after winning the Cup. I doubt he'll even approach 60pts again with his current team.

1.Green/Doughty
2. Buff/Keith
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  #22  
Old 01-06-2011, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mabus View Post
I don't see how people can say that Byfuglien's production has been over too small of a sample when 27 year old Keith has one season over 45 points under his belt and two seasons over 32 points. Seems to me that people are failing to apply the same criticisms to Keith that they are to Byfuglien. I like Byfuglien more than Keith because my numbers state that Keith's numbers were based quite a bit on an increase in luck last year, not an increase in skill, so a regression was anticipated. In short, he's not a 60 point D man, but he should hit 50 for a few years, and as a Byfuglien owner, I wouldn't trade him straight up for Keith.

What about Doughty? A 21 year old with a 59 point season under his belt and the PP QB on an up and coming team is tough to pass up. I'd say that he's a notch above Byfuglien.

Green it tougher. He's really trying to modify his game to be more responsible, Carlson looks like he will cut into his value in future years, he's having troubles with nagging injuries and he's in a bit of a slump. That said, by 25, he has 2 70+ point seasons under his belt and one 56 point season. Since he's the same age as Byfuglien and has a much better track record and he's on the highest scoring team in the league, I think Green is a notch above Byfuglien.

Mabus
Mabus,

I think Buff's production is real, but I am more concerned about his role. This is a guy who has be moved around from winger to defenseman and back to winger in the past. If Atlanta trades him, he may end up a forward again.

Hell, even in Atlanta. Say Bogosian emerges and ATL drafts/lands another quality D-Man or two, they always have the luxury of moving Buff up to forward and having him cause havoc in front of the other team's goalie like he did vs. the Flyers.

Green, Doughty and Keith are all 100% defensemen and will be without a doubt for the rest of their careers. There is no messing around with their roles. I would consider dealing Keith but Green and Doughty are tops among keeper D, IMO.
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START = 13F, 6D, 2G
FWD = G(2), A(1), PP/SH(+1), GW(+2), SHOG(1)
DEF = G(3), A(2), PP/SH(+1), GW(+2), SHOG(1)
GOALIE = W(3), OTL(1), SO(+2), SV(.10)

F: Backstrom, Kopitar, Perry, P.Kane, Spezza, E.Staal, Nash, Vanek, B.Ryan, Eberle, L.Couture, J.Staal, D.Brown, N.Horton, Lucic, Backes, Tarasenko, J.van Riemsdyk, T.Ennis, B.Gallagher, Armia, Teravainen
D: Karlsson, PK Subban, Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, Doughty, Yandle, Chara, Kronwall, J.Johnson, T.Myers, J.Faulk, E.Johnson, A.Larsson, J.Morrow, S.Elliott, M.Rielly, C.Ceci
G: Price, Rask, M.Smith, Hiller
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  #23  
Old 01-06-2011, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by fungchen3 View Post
Mabus,

I think Buff's production is real, but I am more concerned about his role. This is a guy who has be moved around from winger to defenseman and back to winger in the past. If Atlanta trades him, he may end up a forward again.

Hell, even in Atlanta. Say Bogosian emerges and ATL drafts/lands another quality D-Man or two, they always have the luxury of moving Buff up to forward and having him cause havoc in front of the other team's goalie like he did vs. the Flyers.

Green, Doughty and Keith are all 100% defensemen and will be without a doubt for the rest of their careers. There is no messing around with their roles. I would consider dealing Keith but Green and Doughty are tops among keeper D, IMO.
Fungchen said it perfectly. If, and there's a pretty good chance here, that Buff gets moved back to forward I doubt anyone here would trade Green, Doughty or Keith for him. I like Buff, he's proving a lot this year but to offer one of th big 3 on defense is not justifiable yet.

metaldude, if your asking what the addition might be? Well, I'd probably be looking at an upgrade on a forward. Say offering up a fleishmann to an eriksson.
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F-Backstrom,Getzlaf,E.Staal,St-Louis,B.Richards,Burrows,Semin
Whitney,Giroux,Hartnell,Ju.Williams,Ruutu,Malone,D ubinsky,Hudler,Jagr
D-Edler,Boyle,Byfuglien,Daley,Foster
G-Luongo,Brodeur,Vokoun,Rask,Hedberg

F- Crosby,Malkin,Marleau,Krejci,Neal,Tavares,Fillipul a,Stafford.Stepan
Giroux,Fleischmann,Versteeg,Burrows,Ruutu,Jagr,Ber geron,Berglund
D- Keith,Lidstrom,Goligoski,Letang,Phaneuf,Carlson,Ty tuin
G- Luongo,Crawford,Backstrom,Lehtonen
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  #24  
Old 01-06-2011, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by reinjosh View Post
I would do it. I can understand why people are enamored Doughty but I can't understand why he is considered anymore elite than Byfuglien.
Ummmmmmmmmmm, maybe it's because he was a second overall pick and put up those great numbers in his SOPHOMORE season.

Byfuglien was WAIVER FODDER before this season. Now all of a sudden he's elite? He used to be an average forward who sat in front of the net.

Doughty is much much much more elite than Byfuglien will ever be.
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  #25  
Old 01-06-2011, 09:25 PM
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I know I'm the one asking the questions but I tend to disagree with the thought that Byfuglien would get moved back to forward. Who would do that if he's producing like this from the backend. Clearly it's where he belongs.
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  #26  
Old 01-06-2011, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by metaldude26 View Post
I know I'm the one asking the questions but I tend to disagree with the thought that Byfuglien would get moved back to forward. Who would do that if he's producing like this from the backend. Clearly it's where he belongs.
On Atlanta, yes. But no so sure about other teams. Buff is literally a rover, he goes all over the place with no restraints. He is freelancing worse than Mike Green, which is good for him because ATL is not worried about him covering his end.
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START = 13F, 6D, 2G
FWD = G(2), A(1), PP/SH(+1), GW(+2), SHOG(1)
DEF = G(3), A(2), PP/SH(+1), GW(+2), SHOG(1)
GOALIE = W(3), OTL(1), SO(+2), SV(.10)

F: Backstrom, Kopitar, Perry, P.Kane, Spezza, E.Staal, Nash, Vanek, B.Ryan, Eberle, L.Couture, J.Staal, D.Brown, N.Horton, Lucic, Backes, Tarasenko, J.van Riemsdyk, T.Ennis, B.Gallagher, Armia, Teravainen
D: Karlsson, PK Subban, Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, Doughty, Yandle, Chara, Kronwall, J.Johnson, T.Myers, J.Faulk, E.Johnson, A.Larsson, J.Morrow, S.Elliott, M.Rielly, C.Ceci
G: Price, Rask, M.Smith, Hiller
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  #27  
Old 01-06-2011, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by fungchen3 View Post
On Atlanta, yes. But no so sure about other teams. Buff is literally a rover, he goes all over the place with no restraints. He is freelancing worse than Mike Green, which is good for him because ATL is not worried about him covering his end.
True but I think he's still a better defender than Green even with a wilder approach.
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  #28  
Old 01-06-2011, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by metaldude26 View Post
True but I think he's still a better defender than Green even with a wilder approach.
You vs. Green defensively = my money is on you.
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START = 13F, 6D, 2G
FWD = G(2), A(1), PP/SH(+1), GW(+2), SHOG(1)
DEF = G(3), A(2), PP/SH(+1), GW(+2), SHOG(1)
GOALIE = W(3), OTL(1), SO(+2), SV(.10)

F: Backstrom, Kopitar, Perry, P.Kane, Spezza, E.Staal, Nash, Vanek, B.Ryan, Eberle, L.Couture, J.Staal, D.Brown, N.Horton, Lucic, Backes, Tarasenko, J.van Riemsdyk, T.Ennis, B.Gallagher, Armia, Teravainen
D: Karlsson, PK Subban, Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, Doughty, Yandle, Chara, Kronwall, J.Johnson, T.Myers, J.Faulk, E.Johnson, A.Larsson, J.Morrow, S.Elliott, M.Rielly, C.Ceci
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  #29  
Old 01-06-2011, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by fungchen3 View Post
You vs. Green defensively = my money is on you.
lmao,,,ahhhhh-ha-ha-ha. No kiddin'!
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  #30  
Old 01-06-2011, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by fungchen3 View Post
On Atlanta, yes. But no so sure about other teams. Buff is literally a rover, he goes all over the place with no restraints. He is freelancing worse than Mike Green, which is good for him because ATL is not worried about him covering his end.
Enstrom allows him to be that way...
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