Why I\'m losing respect for Brian Burke. - Fantasy Sports Forums

big_dl · #1 07-31-2007, 05:55 PM

I\'m a Flames who used to live in Vancouver and as such hate the Canucks. Having said that I\'ve always respected Brian Burke while he was the GM of the Canucks. I may not have liked the Canucks but I generally respected his opinions. That started to change near the end of his term with the Canucks and has snowballed since he joined the Ducks. Now let me lay this out for you.

1. Playoffs comments - Burke never stopped complaining whether it was \"Sedin is not Swedish for hold me\" or complaining about the Flames running Cloutier (I initially had Luongo, my bad, I\'m referring to the 03/04 playoffs, wasnt really thinking about who the goalie was) a game after Jovo ran Kipper leading to a goal. There\'s a place for GM\'s taking the focus off their teams in the playoffs but Burke\'s seemingly never seen a game where his team was treated fairly.

2. Trapping - Burke near the end of his term with the Canucks said no team of his would ever trap. As soon as he got to the Ducks and the Ducks struggled a little the Ducks started trapping. Burke seemingly doesnt have a problem with this style of play which he ranted against while in Vancouver. Hypocrisy at it\'s height.

3. Burke\'s special rules - Burke seems to have these rules in his head that everybody else in the game needs to follow, yet no one else knows. Didnt he throw a hissy fit last year at the deadline when he couldnt get a star e.g. Bertuzzi, and now he\'s doing it again when Lowe makes an offer for one of his RFA\'s. Not only does he complain about the amount but also about the fact that he wasnt told in advance. Give me a break.

I respect Burke\'s hockey knowledge but the guy wants everything to be done his way and then goes crazy as soon as somebody makes life at all hard for him. If he didnt combine this with some ridiculous hypocrisy it would be forgivable but take both together and why believe anything he says, just tune him out like you did your parents at 14 when they scolded you.

Post edited by: big_dl, at: 2007/07/31 23:55

Post edited by: big_dl, at: 2007/07/31 23:57

Post edited by: big_dl, at: 2007/08/01 00:55

Post edited by: big_dl, at: 2007/08/01 02:41

repenttokyo · #2 07-31-2007, 09:57 PM

a couple of weird things in your post....first of all, burke left the canucks in 2004, well before luongo played for them, so I don\'t see what you are getting at there...and i don\'t recall burke throwing any hissy fits at the deadline last year - why would he need a star on a team full of stars? especially after the pronger trade?

angus · #3 07-31-2007, 10:32 PM

I agree that Burke\'s latest rant is a bit childish, but your points are a bit off base.

Burke has no control over the Ducks trapping or not. He hires the coach, the coach decides. I also think a lot of people don\'t really know what the trap is. Every single team in the NHL employs some version of the trap at one point or another.

The real trap is all about pressuring the defenseman and taking away half the ice from his outlet. The Ducks had one of the best, most punishing, forechecks in the entire league. That was a big reason why they were so successful. If you watch the Ducks good games and bad games, the difference was in the effectiveness of their big forwards at pressuring the opposing defenses. The teams that really play defensive (i.e. the 1-1-3 system) are the ones that make for \"boring\" hockey. The Ducks last season was anything but.

I have never loved or hated Burke. He was a solid GM in Vancouver for a while, but was unable to make any significant moves after the team stalemated in the 2003-2004 season. He failed to bring in a top goalie and never really addressed the needs that needed to be addressed. He did turn a horrible organization into one of the best, though. I feel 10x more confident with Dave Nonis at the helm, because he has many of Burke\'s managerial techniques, but he is much more patient and calculating.

I don\'t get how your view of Burke can change. To me, he hasn\'t really ever changed. He complains, whines, and bullies other members of the hockey world, and often gets his way. Hell, the guy just won the Stanley Cup so he must be doing something right.

big_dl · #4 08-01-2007, 12:53 AM

Tokyo: I whiffed on the goalie, I was mid-rant and wasnt thinking about the goalie at the time, I just went with the current Canuck goalie. My bad, didnt proof read. In regards to Burke\'s fit at the deadline last year, it was reported that he was going hard after Bert, and regardless of whether he needed another star. And whether he needed another star does not change the way he reacted to not getting him.

Angus: He can control how his team he hires the coach. If he doesnt want his coach/team to trap then fire the coach. As GM he has control over what goes on in the team, see Lou Lamoriello in New Jersey. If Burke says no team of his will ever trap then it seems logical that he wouldnt hire a coach who would instill a coach who would trap. Furthermore it doesnt matter what other teams, not every other GM has publicly said that no team of theirs would ever trap. If he\'s gonna talk the talk he should walk the walk, and not trap in order to win. I didnt watch the Ducks play a lot this past I dont have cable and therefore didnt see many games at all this past year. I did see the ducks the year before, and they sure as shit trapped, Carlyle instituted it as soon as he realized the Ducks werent gonna do much playing offensive or aggressive hockey. In relation to Nonis vs Burke I would say that Burke got too attached the \"core\" he had assembled. Nonis was a step removed and therefore was less inhibited in trying to shake the team up. I would say that I thought Burke made a lot of the right moves in Vancouver, aside from his support of Dan Cloutier. I like what Nonis has done with the Canucks, although they\'re boring to watch but then again I\'m a Flames so who am I to complain.

Finally, my view of Burke didnt change because of his bitching and moaning, it changed when he developed a penchant for hypocrisy. The 2 combined make for a nasty touch. One of the most appealing things to me about Burke was that he was willing to stick to his guns when it seems most other teams were going to the trap. If Burke\'s going to bluster then he should be willing to stand behind it as well.

big_dl · #5 08-01-2007, 12:53 AM

Originally my previous re-posted but now I\'m gonna use this space to touch on Nonis. Nonis hasnt proven himself to be that good yet, it\'s only been 2 years. Having said that, the direction Nonis is going is very much in agreement with how I feel a team should be built, from the back out. I dont like how the Canucks play, I find it to be boring but I think a star goalie is the hardest thing there is to find and you have to respect Nonis for acquiring one in Luongo. At the same time Nonis has yet to follow that up with anything significant. His deadline deals haven\'t worked, although i believe they were the right moves. And other than Mitchell and Pyatt nothing else has really come close unless Marc Chouinard is a success.

As down as it must seem that I am on Nonis I must say that I can see where you\'re coming from Angus. Nonis has shown the willingness to break up the core something Burke never did. I think Nonis has a bright future ahead of him as a GM, I\'m just not sure I\'d put him on the same level as Burke quite yet. If this seems odd that I\'d rank Burke higher, it is, but just because i\'m losing respect for him doesnt mean he hasnt shown himself to be worthy of being considered a top notch GM, regardless of useless bluster and rampant hypocrisy.

Post edited by: big_dl, at: 2007/08/01 03:28

sabe · #6 08-01-2007, 02:10 AM

I think one of the reasons why Brian Burke makes these comments is that he craves for power over everything. Didn\'t the guy used to be NHL\'s Director of Hockey Operations?

Dobber · #7 08-01-2007, 07:54 AM

Just one comment - I loved Burke\'s rant about Sedins not being Swedish for \'hold me\', and Bertuzzi wears a jersey and not two Red Wings on his back. Great!

He\'s still my favorite GM, but he was a whiner about this Lowe thing.

87Flyer · #8 08-01-2007, 10:58 AM

personnaly i like the guy, sure he\'s whining now but you know dam well if he had to do the same thing he\'d do it in a heartbeat and then come up with a bunch of reasons why he had to. when i think about how bad the team was before he came to Van and the turn around after how can you not respect the guy. he makes the deals when he has to. he keeps his loyalty to his players even if sometimes that doesn\'t get them where they need to be, another good quality in my mind. i\'d rather have faith that what my GM tells me he\'s gonna do is honest than as soon as i leave the door im being told i just got traded by the assistant GM.

any GM who\'s willing to try to take the heat off the players during the wars that are the playoffs is a valuable asset to have. i was ecstatic when the ducks won, he deserved to be part of a championship, next to teemu getting his that was great.

to top it off the guy pulled out some magic and traded up to get a draft pick that managed to get the most solid players that team has, sure he didn\'t get luongo but i think if the insanity had\'ve crept into florida when he was there he would\'ve gotten him then to lol.

angus · #9 08-01-2007, 02:48 PM

big_dl wrote:

Quote:

Originally my previous re-posted but now I\'m gonna use this space to touch on Nonis. Nonis hasnt proven himself to be that good yet, it\'s only been 2 years. Having said that, the direction Nonis is going is very much in agreement with how I feel a team should be built, from the back out. I dont like how the Canucks play, I find it to be boring but I think a star goalie is the hardest thing there is to find and you have to respect Nonis for acquiring one in Luongo. At the same time Nonis has yet to follow that up with anything significant. His deadline deals haven\'t worked, although i believe they were the right moves. And other than Mitchell and Pyatt nothing else has really come close unless Marc Chouinard is a success.

As down as it must seem that I am on Nonis I must say that I can see where you\'re coming from Angus. Nonis has shown the willingness to break up the core something Burke never did. I think Nonis has a bright future ahead of him as a GM, I\'m just not sure I\'d put him on the same level as Burke quite yet. If this seems odd that I\'d rank Burke higher, it is, but just because i\'m losing respect for him doesnt mean he hasnt shown himself to be worthy of being considered a top notch GM, regardless of useless bluster and rampant hypocrisy.<br><br>Post edited by: big_dl, at: 2007/08/01 03:28

The majority of Nonis\' moves have worked out well. He has had a stinker as well in Chouinard, but ownership helped him out there. He hasn\'t been able to \"follow up\" because the Canucks are right up against the cap. I agree that he isn\'t totally proven as a GM yet, but I have full confidence in what he does. He may seem a little stoic at times, but he has a plan for this team and I can\'t wait for next off-season when we clear out $10 million in cap space.

All I am saying is that I like Nonis as GM better than Burke after a few years. Burke was great at first, but his inability to get this team over the hump really cost us a chance at the cup. His failed deadline pickups (Rucinsky, Sanderson, etc) didn\'t really help either. What he did in Anaheim was fantastic, getting Beauchemin for Fedorov for example. He won a cup there so obviously deserves the accolades that come with it.

Orrfan · #10 08-01-2007, 06:10 PM

Burkie is a bit mercurical no doubt.
He has his ups and downs. He shoots from the lip and is a emotional guy. Overall he\'s a decent GM but the Bertuzzi signing was a major lowpoint. His handling of the Umberger and Scheafer no-signings was a disaster for the Nucks too. He is weak in his judgment of Goalies, and proven NHL FA talent. For example there have been numerous times in his Nucks past when he could of signed players that sat until another team scooped them and there was a need at that position.
Trade wise he\'s very good and a loyal guy to a fault..see $4.0 mill for Bertsnoozzi.
Day to day team running is very good and he gets the most out of the people in his mgnt. teams, he tries to be fiscally prudent for the most part. Super charity/community guy.
All that said if I was a team owner I would hire him and just grin and bear the occasional gaffes.
Thats my humble opinion.. your mileage may vary.

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