Very true, and if Subban weren't any good in the other categories then I would agree with this argument. Thing is, both dmen should be very close in every cat (edge to pietrangelo in most) but when you have a dman who might be slightly lower in every other category but is your ONLY pim option, then I'd stick with the guy who's gonna give those PIM rather than risk sacrificing that category.

Subban has elite offensive instincts as well, I feel like we are forgetting that.

__________________
10tm Dynasty Lg - $70M CAP
G A PTS +/- PIM PPP SOG W GAA SV% SO

C: J. Carter, H Sedin, E. Staal
RW: P. Kane, Stewart
LW: Semin, Couture
D: Pietrangelo, Hamhuis, Subban, Carlson
G: Lundqvist, Price
UTIL: Plekanec, Ennis, Perron, D. Brown


Farm
D: B. Smith, Morrow
F: Brassard, Williams, Niederreiter, Little, Okposo, Whitney, Nyquist, Kesler
G: S. Mason, Ward

Prospect:
F - Z. Kassian, Spooner, Kuznetsov, Tatar, Teravainen, Stone, Connolly
D - Matt Dumba

Agree to disagree. He can get PIM in the draft, so I would rather the guy whom I'm more confident offensively already than someone who c/should get there one day.

I can do that!

But you can't just go out and get PIM and add them "for free". If you are going to replace someone else on your roster with a PIM guy, you have to consider what you're losing in order to do that. What makes guys like Backes, Hartnell, Byfuglien and Subban so valuable is that they provide you with PIM while also providing top production in every other category. You can't just go out and buy a Zenon Konopka or a Derek Dorsett and not expect to lose out on whichever player you had to pull from your roster in order to get those PIM in.

Now, if you can get a Hartnell or a Backes, then you're laughing. But you can't just say you can go out and "get PIM" without considering what you have to sacrifice in order to get thim in your lineup.

__________________
10tm Dynasty Lg - $70M CAP
G A PTS +/- PIM PPP SOG W GAA SV% SO

C: J. Carter, H Sedin, E. Staal
RW: P. Kane, Stewart
LW: Semin, Couture
D: Pietrangelo, Hamhuis, Subban, Carlson
G: Lundqvist, Price
UTIL: Plekanec, Ennis, Perron, D. Brown


Farm
D: B. Smith, Morrow
F: Brassard, Williams, Niederreiter, Little, Okposo, Whitney, Nyquist, Kesler
G: S. Mason, Ward

Prospect:
F - Z. Kassian, Spooner, Kuznetsov, Tatar, Teravainen, Stone, Connolly
D - Matt Dumba

I'm well aware of the value of multiple categories contributors. I'm also well aware of the value of such players in H2H vs Roto leagues depending on the settings, and well aware of some other players' shortfalls if you focus solely on PIM. I've used different strategies in H2H leagues so I know there are different ways of being successful.

I'd rather keep Pietrangelo and look to replace PIM in the draft but maybe that's just me.

Don't forget there are a lot of underrated multi-cat guys too, not just the big ticket ones.

Dubinsky, C.Stewart, Clarkson, Downie, N.Foligno, Simmonds, Parenteau...guys that are good enough not to hurt you and provide a ton of PIM.

The trade value argument is a very good one as well.

Damn you all!!!!

__________________
10tm Dynasty Lg - $70M CAP
G A PTS +/- PIM PPP SOG W GAA SV% SO

C: J. Carter, H Sedin, E. Staal
RW: P. Kane, Stewart
LW: Semin, Couture
D: Pietrangelo, Hamhuis, Subban, Carlson
G: Lundqvist, Price
UTIL: Plekanec, Ennis, Perron, D. Brown


Farm
D: B. Smith, Morrow
F: Brassard, Williams, Niederreiter, Little, Okposo, Whitney, Nyquist, Kesler
G: S. Mason, Ward

Prospect:
F - Z. Kassian, Spooner, Kuznetsov, Tatar, Teravainen, Stone, Connolly
D - Matt Dumba

I agree with this statment... and I'm of the belief that Subban has better offensive insticts and is going to score more points then Piet, over there careers. Just a gut feeling. + Ive seen them play a little more then a little . But could be wrong....

Remember - Last year was a wash year for Subban. His team was brutal and he had to play almost alone on the back end. There was a serious lack of talent on his team and I think there a little better now!

__________________
"My Name Is My Name" ~Marlo
"I'm just a Gangster I suppose and I want my fu***** corners"~ Barksdale

I've been trying not to, but I HAD to revisit this thread . Small sample size, yes - but I don't think it's too hard to argue for subban's offense at this point!

__________________
10tm Dynasty Lg - $70M CAP
G A PTS +/- PIM PPP SOG W GAA SV% SO

C: J. Carter, H Sedin, E. Staal
RW: P. Kane, Stewart
LW: Semin, Couture
D: Pietrangelo, Hamhuis, Subban, Carlson
G: Lundqvist, Price
UTIL: Plekanec, Ennis, Perron, D. Brown


Farm
D: B. Smith, Morrow
F: Brassard, Williams, Niederreiter, Little, Okposo, Whitney, Nyquist, Kesler
G: S. Mason, Ward

Prospect:
F - Z. Kassian, Spooner, Kuznetsov, Tatar, Teravainen, Stone, Connolly
D - Matt Dumba

Subban has been on fire this year. He's playing for a huge contract after next season (I think he signed a 2-year).

I was all about Pietrangelo before this season, but glad I kept Subban even though I knew the contract status was a mess.

__________________
Sites: www.twitter.com/tsgraveline tsgraveline.blogspot.com thesharkremarks.blogspot.com

Team 1:10 Multi-Cat Roto league

C- Malkin,Giroux,Thornton Galchenyuk, Schenn, Berglund, Eller
LW- Hall,Ovechkin, E.Kane Saad
RW- Seguin, Stewart, PAP
D- Subban,Phaneuf Keith, OEL, Hedman,
G- Pavelec,Hiller Lindback, Theodore, Lehner

Team 2:24 H2H League Multi-Cat

C- Lecavalier, B. Schenn, Ennis, Belanger
LW- JVR, Leino, Bissonnette, Whitney, C. Bourque, Nodl
RW- Kopecky, Langenbrunner, Doan, Versteeg, Mayers
D- Doughty, Burns, Souray, Sarich, Lovejoy, Potter
G-Pavelec, Enroth

Thank you sir!

__________________
"My Name Is My Name" ~Marlo
"I'm just a Gangster I suppose and I want my fu***** corners"~ Barksdale