this thing wont get done for another week or two

Love the braveheart reference - i am pretty sure Bettman mooned Fehr right after they met in the middle of the battlefield to discuss battle terms.

The guys at TSN are so right - this lockout is the most embarrassing and irrational in pro sports history. It's a pissing contest. Has nothing to do with gaining money short-term or long-term. It's just about trying to stick it to the other side.

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So very true, unfortunately.

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Four out of three people have difficulty with fractions

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i dont think it is.

If bettman "owned" the league, and Fehr "owned" the players, then i might agree.

When was the last time you let your money manager make emotional decisions with your investments? Why would the owners let bettman get in a co<k fight with their cash? same for the players - why would the middle class allow donald fehr to mess with their careers and livelihood to win an emotional fight. Thats not what this is, even if it looks that way.

Bettman and Fehr work for their bosses, they have a business plan, and are both doing the best they can for their sides. These guys are shrewed negotiators, and we only get info via the media. We are not in the room. This is just part of the process.

Business plan??? You're kidding right? Go back and look at the NHL's business plan over the last 20 years. They even lost when they got the salary cap they wanted.

And the players... good business plan too right? Aren't these the same players that said hell no to a salary cap, lost a season and took the salary cap anyway? They are morons and are just looking for stuff to be mad about right now.

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I hope the fans show their displeasure at all the disrespect (or is it disregard) the NHL and NHLPA are showing them. This is a good read about fans' perspective on the lockout.

It's easy for me not to contribute: I live in Toronto where ticket prices are more than I'm willing to spend to see a crappy team. And I don't pay for NHL center ice or whatever other packages feed into the money pit from which the NHL digs. No jersies either, never quite got the appeal of that. But I'm afraid, a lot of fans won't be able to resist and will flock right back. These two greedy, shameless sides need to be taught a lesson.

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I went to a fight the other night and a hockey game broke out.
- Rodney Dangerfield

Regardless of what happens in ticket sales, the lockout will hurt. The hardcore fans who follow this closely lose respect for the players and for their bosses. The non-fans think more highly of basketball and football because they had their lockouts too but "look at those dummies over there in hockey". It hurts the NHL's potential with sponsors and definitely hurts their chances of getting back on ESPN.

Myself, I am still a hockey guy but I do feel my inner hockey foundation crumbling a bit. My perspective on the sport has changed. Who knows, maybe in 5-10 years other things make hockey something I am rarely associated with.

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I disagree. First, initially they are coming from two opposing perspectives. Bettman (owners) proactively locked the players out as a negotiating tactic (validity aside for the moment). Thus the players entered from a reactive position. The owners own, therefore they are in the position of power and it is they who dictate the ebb and flow of the discussions...ultimately.

Now that by no means mitigates nor excuses the boneheadedness of the NHLPA's negotiating tactics. But make no mistake there is a hierarchy between owners/players, as well within each respective group.

Which brings me to my next point. Your presumption that [all] the owners let bettman get in a co<k fight with their cash? is untrue on it's face. Maybe five owners are the ones actually pushing-pulling the league and by extension, Bettman in the direction they deem. The notion that all owners are created equal in the context of these discussion is..put nicely, not true.

Second, even if it were, the hubris that bloats these owners blinds them from any notion that could possibly "lose" these negotiations (and their cash). Therefore, the concept of risk escapes them, w/in the context of these discussions. Especially, when initial proposal were being bandied about.

The players...well, they had my empathy from the outset, but no longer. The players have become at this stage what the owners started out as - full of themselves. It's all ego, at this point, and the same hierarchy exists among the players as with the owners, with the chosen few millionaires dictating the course of action for the middle class.

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Four out of three people have difficulty with fractions

Commish - Twisted Wrister Fantasy Hockey League

12 team, $$$, 24 players, Weekly, H2H, limited keeper (8), multi-cat (G, A, PIMs, Hits, SOG, HT/ W, GA, SV%, SO)

Start: 2C, 2RW, 2LW, 4D, 2G

I agree with this. Not sure how they get off handling this the way they do when it's clearly the laughing-stock of all professional sports leagues. It would be great for the fans to stand up to these guys.

That being said, it's a bit of a catch-22. I love hockey. All other hockey fans love hockey. We don't have many "middle of the road" fans. So, what's the point of even starting the season again if we aren't going to go to games, or watch games on tv, or support the teams we like? After all, that's all I want to do, and I miss it so much. As much as the NHL deserves to be taught a lesson, they are the ones losing millions of dollars every day, not us. It's easy for fans to complain but the lockout hurts the players and the league way worse than it hurts us.

Not trying to justify it, because it's been nonsense for months now, but I for one know that I am going to try to go to as many Devils games as I can this year.

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F: Ovechkin, Stamkos, Parise, Kovalchuk, Marchand, Perron, Hudler, Downie, Clarkson, Ruutu
D: Letang, Subban, Fowler, White, Leddy, Staal
G: Miller, Halak

Farm: Reinhart, de Haan, Beach, Kuhnhackl, Kabanov, Jenner, Vatanen, Dillon, Wedgewood, Matthew Hackett

F: Giroux, Backstrom, Iginla, Zetterberg, Thornton, Doan, VanRiemsdyk, Simmonds, Steen, Setoguchi
D: Doughty, Wideman, Bieksa, Zidlicky, Martin
G: Quick, Pavelec, Harding

Farm: Tangradi, Lack, Bjugstad, Schroeder, Dillon, Friberg, Gaudreau, Finn

QUOTE=Bomm Bastic;1050037] Now that by no means mitigates nor excuses the boneheadedness of the NHLPA's negotiating tactics. But make no mistake there is a hierarchy between owners/players, as well within each respective group.

Which brings me to my next point. Your presumption that [all] the owners let bettman get in a co<k fight with their cash? is untrue on it's face. Maybe five owners are the ones actually pushing-pulling the league and by extension, Bettman in the direction they deem. The notion that all owners are created equal in the context of these discussion is..put nicely, not true. [/QUOTE]



fair points