I understand, and it sounds like you've actually put forth the effort. But please do me a favor, do the research and check out L-theanine. I've heard anecdotal evidence that it really does help for this and would love to know if you find that to be at all true.

__________________
12 team Full Dynasty w cap. 13F, 7D, 2G, 5B.
G 4.25, A 2.75, PPP 1.5, SHP 3, Hits 0.4, Blocks 0.5, PIM 0.25, DFP 1
W 5 OTL 1 SO 6 SV 0.25 L-1 GS 1

F:Stamkos, C Stew, R Johansen, B Dubinsky, Max Pac, Umberger, B Ryan, D Backes, T Ruutu, Lucic, Ott, MSL, Heatley, C Kunitz, J Benn, L Adam

D: C Fowler, Kronwall, A Goligoski, JM Liles, M Giordano, K Letang, N Nikitin, R Josi

G: J Quick, A Niemi, C Anderson, Rinne

I will for sure.

I really wanted to respond last night, but after too many brews at my christmas party, I thought it best to wait.

I do not recall the stats, but yes, I do believe that medications are over prescribed. Whether it be on the side of physician or due to the patient directly requesting the medication.


It's really tough to speak in general terms here as there is nothing cut and dry when it comes to this. As a parent, after exhausting other avenues, it would be very difficult not to turn to a medication to give your child a chance at success. Keep in mind that a child who significantly struggles throughout all of school will have a decreased chance at having a good quality of life once older.

The child spoke about death in the sense that he wanted to die. The kid was totally depressed. It was NOT a learned behaviour as his parents are both really positive people. I think it's very ignorant for you to say that "he'll need to figure that out sooner or later". It's really easy to take a tough stance on that but if it's your kid in that situation, you would NEVER say that.


[QUOTE] It just lends validity to my point that parenting is largely the problem these days. It's a tough job I'm sure, not that I would know at this stage in my life, but I do know that outstanding parenting can cure more problems than medication can. [QUOTE]

Parenting can cure a whole lot of problems, and I totally agree that SOME parents are very poor parents. However, you are speaking in far too general terms. Can parenting cure a learning disability? Can parenting cure a physical disability? Nope. Why can't that be the same with non physically manifesting disabilities (depression, adhd, etc.)?

I do understand the root of your point though. Do some parents turn to medications far too quickly? Absolutely - I've witnessed it myself. Are some parents unfit? Very much so. But it's far from the truth to infer that good parenting can fix all those problems.

You are right, you don't know my friend or their situation. So to question their decision, who have all the facts, to have their child take an anti-depressant is totally an "arm-chair quarterback" approach.

I sense you have a strong dislike/distaste for parenting and medication in general, which is quite fine. However, that doesn't mean that ALL medication is a bad thing and that ALL parents make ego-centric decisions about their children. Believe it or not, some of us are actually half decent at the parenting thing.

__________________
Ultimate Dynasty League
16 Team Dynasty League H2H: G, A, P, PPP, SHP, +/-, PIM, SOG, W, L, GAA, SvPct, SHO

C: Stamkos, Getzlaf, Carter
LW: Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Brown
RW: Iginla, Pavelski, Horton
D: Byfuglien, J.Johnson, Goligoski, Hedman, Hamonic
U: Mueller
G: Schneider, Hiller,
B: E. Johnson, S.Kostitsyn, Neil, Biron, Giguere
IR:
Prospect: Nail Yakupov, Tangradi

__________________________________________________ ___________________________
UHL Dynasty St. Louis Blues
...a bad team trying to rebuild...

I don't have a distaste for parenting or meds. I do however have distaste for a heavy reliance on medication that creates lazy parents.

If parents have really tried other avenues, I'm fine with some kids taking the meds. But the phrase I used is "some kids" for a reason. Look at how many kids abuse Adderall as a PED in HS and College. Our extreme reliance on drugs has become obscene.

__________________
12 team Full Dynasty w cap. 13F, 7D, 2G, 5B.
G 4.25, A 2.75, PPP 1.5, SHP 3, Hits 0.4, Blocks 0.5, PIM 0.25, DFP 1
W 5 OTL 1 SO 6 SV 0.25 L-1 GS 1

F:Stamkos, C Stew, R Johansen, B Dubinsky, Max Pac, Umberger, B Ryan, D Backes, T Ruutu, Lucic, Ott, MSL, Heatley, C Kunitz, J Benn, L Adam

D: C Fowler, Kronwall, A Goligoski, JM Liles, M Giordano, K Letang, N Nikitin, R Josi

G: J Quick, A Niemi, C Anderson, Rinne

I know you said seldom, so may already feel this was implied in your response, but I have to disagree with this statement, or at least its connotation. In combination with behavioral therapy (as DongJohnson pointed out in his original post) medication has a useful role in treatment of depression. As a patient who has grappled with these issues, through counseling of students and their parents who are coping with them, and through the lens of my study of neurophysiology, I believe that, as was mentioned above, the long-term "cure" for depression (ie the improvement of quality of life toward average levels of functionality) comes from modification of mental and physical habits. However changing habits is hard, especially the often life-long habits of the depressive mind. Ironically, some of the symptoms of depression, eg lack of energy/motivation, lack of faith in the possibility of improvement, lack of confidence in one's ability to accomplish the goal of healing, lack belief in one's value and thus deserving the efforts of one's self or others to effect change, make changing habits even harder.Medication can provide a more stable base from which to work on changing those habits, reducing the chance of continued reinforcement of destructive thinking cycles and actions, dropping out of treatment, and even suicide until some improvement is achieved.
Agreed, and proper use of medications should not be an attempt at an instant fix, or even a fix in and of itself at all.
I think I know what you're getting at, but I think the many people don't appreciate that this is not a strict dichotomy. Enduring "real" stressors not only makes people sad/angry/frustrated, but over time literally changes the anatomy and physiology of the brain. Synapses are strengthened and weakened, secretion of neurotransmitters changes, whole anatomical structures can grow or shrink. In other words, people who become depressed due to the impetus of injuries, physical or psychological, blur into the class of what most people think of as having a "chemical imbalance." Medication can change some of these physiological phenomena, which then allows a patient to stop the thought patterns and physical actions which strengthen the neural circuits which perpetuate the depressive state. It's far from a simple categorization.
Absolutely true, but these people are technically not depressed (as you get at with "claiming"), but rather sad, upset, angry, despondent, etc. A perhaps niggling matter of terminology I know, but one that avoids a lot of the tension that generally surrounds this type of discussion. People who are depressed (ie clinically depressed, the only type that actually fits the term) generally cannot just "get over it." I understand that you did not mean to imply that this sentiment applies to the class of people I am talking about here.

Both clinically normal people (whatever that means, but here I mean in terms of being diagnosable with depression) dealing with adversity and those with depression need to make the decision to and learn how to cope with the tribulations of life. However it is not "just about as simple as it sounds."

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H2H 10 GMs Keeper: keep up to 4 at cost of draft pick (round in red) G, A,+/-,PIM,SOG,PPP; Wins,GAA,Sv% Start 2C 2R 2L 1 Util 4D 2G, weekly starts
C: Tomáš Plecanec (10), Jonathan Huberdeau (11)
LW: Patrik Eliáš (14), Pascal Dupuis (10) Иlлья Kovalchuk (1), Brandon Saad (10)
RW: Jarome Iginla (3), Phil Kessel (2) Jakub Voráček (9)
Util:
D:Ryan Suter (7), Mike Green (4), Brent Burns (10), Mark Streit, Justin Schultz (12)
G:Craig Anderson (6), Дeвaн Dubnyk (17) Cepгeй Bobrovsky (9), Niklas Bäckström (8)

Wasn't referring to you. My response was to maya has the knife.

But regardless, I do agree that we have become too reliant on pharmaceuticals.

__________________
Ultimate Dynasty League
16 Team Dynasty League H2H: G, A, P, PPP, SHP, +/-, PIM, SOG, W, L, GAA, SvPct, SHO

C: Stamkos, Getzlaf, Carter
LW: Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Brown
RW: Iginla, Pavelski, Horton
D: Byfuglien, J.Johnson, Goligoski, Hedman, Hamonic
U: Mueller
G: Schneider, Hiller,
B: E. Johnson, S.Kostitsyn, Neil, Biron, Giguere
IR:
Prospect: Nail Yakupov, Tangradi

__________________________________________________ ___________________________
UHL Dynasty St. Louis Blues
...a bad team trying to rebuild...

Hmm, and this seems to correlate well with the advent of pharmaceutical advertising...Imagine that, get the patients roiled up into a froth to the point where they self-diagnose and pressure their doctors for prescriptions, and medication of the population soars.

My favorite is the flat-out manufacture of new "diseases" that are transparently nothing more than trying to achieve this "ideal healthy body" Lockedge referred to. I can't believe the gall of publicizing, for example, hypotrichosis (thin eyelashes) as if it were a problem an appreciable swath of the population needs to be informed about and, as an obvious corollary, medicated for.

But it's not always just the patients' nor the pharmaceutical industry's fault, uninformed and even lazy doctors are out there as well. At one point in dealing with insomnia, my psychiatrist prescribed me a powerful anti-psychotic to "quiet my mind" and help me sleep.

__________________
H2H 10 GMs Keeper: keep up to 4 at cost of draft pick (round in red) G, A,+/-,PIM,SOG,PPP; Wins,GAA,Sv% Start 2C 2R 2L 1 Util 4D 2G, weekly starts
C: Tomáš Plecanec (10), Jonathan Huberdeau (11)
LW: Patrik Eliáš (14), Pascal Dupuis (10) Иlлья Kovalchuk (1), Brandon Saad (10)
RW: Jarome Iginla (3), Phil Kessel (2) Jakub Voráček (9)
Util:
D:Ryan Suter (7), Mike Green (4), Brent Burns (10), Mark Streit, Justin Schultz (12)
G:Craig Anderson (6), Дeвaн Dubnyk (17) Cepгeй Bobrovsky (9), Niklas Bäckström (8)

I'm so repping you on that one, sir. Wanna know the #1 cost for the big pharma guys as a whole? So you guessed R & D, right? Nope, ADVERTISING!

__________________
12 team Full Dynasty w cap. 13F, 7D, 2G, 5B.
G 4.25, A 2.75, PPP 1.5, SHP 3, Hits 0.4, Blocks 0.5, PIM 0.25, DFP 1
W 5 OTL 1 SO 6 SV 0.25 L-1 GS 1

F:Stamkos, C Stew, R Johansen, B Dubinsky, Max Pac, Umberger, B Ryan, D Backes, T Ruutu, Lucic, Ott, MSL, Heatley, C Kunitz, J Benn, L Adam

D: C Fowler, Kronwall, A Goligoski, JM Liles, M Giordano, K Letang, N Nikitin, R Josi

G: J Quick, A Niemi, C Anderson, Rinne

Thanks "Robbie" , I appreciate your proffessional perspective/insight on this subject and appreciate your feedback on my comments , they are pretty much "bang on".
I know that many problems that get us in a state of depression can be "fixed" by simply changing our lifestyle , our aquaintences , our habits , etc. but , that simple solution is not something that many of us find so simple to enforce/act on.
As you said it can take a long time to get to the point where you finally "wake up" and say today is the day I take control of my life , my problems , etc.
It's a fine line between insanity and sanity , it's trying to stay on the "right" side of that line that keeps you from going over the edge.

__________________
Roto type keeper league.We keep any 6 ;15 teams , 3 div. of 5.We play 3 lines , 3 def. and start 2 goalies.6 BN.Stats are 1pt. for goals and assists , 2pts. for W , tie(O.T. or S.O. loss) 1pt. S.O. 1pt.Weekly line-up from Mon. to Sun.

LW - Malkin
LW - J. Skinner
LW - T. Ennis
LW - Conacher
LW - Raymond
C - Matthias
C - M. Richards
C - V. Filppula
C - Vermette
RW - B. Schenn
RW - M. Read
RW - J. Huberdeau
RW - M. Gaborik
Def. - Pietrangelo
Def. - B. Smith
Def. - Diaz
Def. - OEL
Def. - Stoner
G - Louongo
G - Markstrom
G - Neuvirth

And thanks for your insight as well.

For the record, I am not a mental health professional, only studied and taught anatomy and physiology, and had lengthy discussions with psychiatrists as a patient and as a friend. I didn't mean to claim a level of expertise I don't have.

__________________
H2H 10 GMs Keeper: keep up to 4 at cost of draft pick (round in red) G, A,+/-,PIM,SOG,PPP; Wins,GAA,Sv% Start 2C 2R 2L 1 Util 4D 2G, weekly starts
C: Tomáš Plecanec (10), Jonathan Huberdeau (11)
LW: Patrik Eliáš (14), Pascal Dupuis (10) Иlлья Kovalchuk (1), Brandon Saad (10)
RW: Jarome Iginla (3), Phil Kessel (2) Jakub Voráček (9)
Util:
D:Ryan Suter (7), Mike Green (4), Brent Burns (10), Mark Streit, Justin Schultz (12)
G:Craig Anderson (6), Дeвaн Dubnyk (17) Cepгeй Bobrovsky (9), Niklas Bäckström (8)