Players may be in dark over 50/50 split - Page 3 - Fantasy Sports Forums

BrianSTC · #21 11-18-2012, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yougo

I am quite curious as how could any hockey fan side with the owners.

3rd lockout in 15 years. 1 lost season. Highest revenues by the league ever with the CBA , they wanted. Now we are heading into december with no hockey mostly because the owners are being ruthless.

It's time for some billionaires to step up and start a new league. The NHL will never be able to win over the fans ever IMO. Atleast me.

I will buy fake jerseys, fake hats, I will illegally stream their games but I don't think that I will ever give another penny to the NHL if we miss another season.

First, it takes two to fight.

Second, the last CBA is over, done, finished, history...

Before resigning, Andrew Ladd was being paid 2.35 million per on his previous contract. That was a contract HE wanted. So according to your logic, Ladd should have re-signed for 2.35 million again. Yet, he sign for 4.4 million per.

Just like Ladd's previous contract, the previous CBA has no relevance.

Maaaasquito · #22 11-18-2012, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mister_mcgoo

I read this article today, it's largely speculative but an interesting read...it basically suggests that the owners are souring on Bettman's stubborn ******* approach to the whole process. The interesting part for me was to learn that that little imp can effectively block the will of the owners unless a supermajority oppose him. I really can't fathom why they haven't got rid of him

http://mobile.philly.com/sports/?wss...9281&viewAll=y

It makes sense right... the thing is Bettman is responsible for the entire 30 owners, who all have an "equal" share in the league... The problem for the NHL, is that as much as they want it to be "equal" across the board, but it isn't in a financial sense. You have a handful of teams that are making money and/or breaking even. Then you have the majority in the red, which is a sign that things are broken... As much as we think differently, Bettman is actually not solely responsible for those owners who are making money, he's responsible for all of them. This lockout is more of an owner vs. owner problem with the players in the middle being tossed in as the "scapegoat"/solution to the problem.

Snider is kicking up a fuss because he is one of the teams that this system is actually working for. He's actually one of the ones that are "circumventing the cap" that got us into this mess in the first place (Chris Pronger/Shea Weber offer sheet).

The reason they haven't gotten rid of him, is that he's gotten the job done, as much as we hate him, he's gotten the owners everything they wanted without having to concede anything. You can't fire a guy for that. Until the majority of the owners don't find what he's contributing to the owners is worth it, he'll stay in charge of the owners...

DuklaNation · #23 11-18-2012, 06:11 PM

When people speak of revenues, they need to account for ALL costs. Higher revenue doesnt equal higher profits.

Maaaasquito · #24 11-18-2012, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuklaNation

When people speak of revenues, they need to account for ALL costs. Higher revenue doesnt equal higher profits.

You are right, but what it does show is that the industry is growing... You wouldn't want high profits but have the revenues going down either.

Big Ev · #25 11-18-2012, 10:11 PM

Let's just ask journalists like James Mirtle to solve the lockout for us. Because you know, if anyone knows anything about economics and business, it's hockey journalists.

blayze · #26 11-18-2012, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carcillo

How are the owners being ruthless? They're looking for similar deal as NFL, NBA and MLB. In not one of those leagues do the players get even close to 57% of revenues.

That's a bad comparison... the NHL's total revenue is a rounding error compared to those other pro sports. Also, players in those other leagues make astronomically more than NHL players in endorsements, merchandise and other ancillary revenue.

blayze · #27 11-18-2012, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maaaasquito

Make an ultimatum and say this is the best and final offer, you have 72 hours to take it or leave it, or we'll cancel the season. State it publicly then follow up on it

That will only end with one result - a cancelled season.

Negotiations are a highly emotionally charged process... there is a lot of pride and ego involved, it is not solely about the dollars or the logical rationale. When you make a bold move like that (let's forget publicly), you are no longer challenging them on sense and reason, but at that point you are challenging their own personal sense of pride. It is human nature for people to intuitively protect their sense of pride and self-worth... when people feel threatened on this front, then all rationale goes out the window.

In negotiations, you NEVER issue the ultimatum unless the other side has become totally unreasonable and you are 100% willing to live with the consequences.

A very good friend of mine last-year issued an ill-advised ultimatum to her long-term boyfriend... marry me or stop wasting my time. She didn't truly mean it and she wasn't ready to walk away from the relationship, but she foolishly thought her tactic would work and that he would come to his senses. I told her not to table the issue like that, and doing so would be like cornering a tiger. She did it anyway and he dumped her after a week. She was devastated and regrets it to this day.

Papps · #28 11-19-2012, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blayze

That will only end with one result - a cancelled season.

Negotiations are a highly emotionally charged process... there is a lot of pride and ego involved, it is not solely about the dollars or the logical rationale. When you make a bold move like that (let's forget publicly), you are no longer challenging them on sense and reason, but at that point you are challenging their own personal sense of pride. It is human nature for people to intuitively protect their sense of pride and self-worth... when people feel threatened on this front, then all rationale goes out the window.

In negotiations, you NEVER issue the ultimatum unless the other side has become totally unreasonable and you are 100% willing to live with the consequences.

A very good friend of mine last-year issued an ill-advised ultimatum to her long-term boyfriend... marry me or stop wasting my time. She didn't truly mean it and she wasn't ready to walk away from the relationship, but she foolishly thought her tactic would work and that he would come to his senses. I told her not to table the issue like that, and doing so would be like cornering a tiger. She did it anyway and he dumped her after a week. She was devastated and regrets it to this day.

I know in my marriage an ultimatum means I've lost either way. I think Bettman and the owners have the "cheaper to keeper" attitude. Better to keep workin it rather then suffer its fate. And possibly earlier then needed.

The lockout has turned me sour. In 2004 there wasn't as much media and social networking as now. Not everything was leaked. Anybody else see how much the media was scrambling when the "unknown location" or "secret meeting" was held by the NHL & PA? They didn't know something and it was killing them.

My point is who knew there were so many murderers or disasters before the news & Internet? Social media has allowed is to be monsters. Monsters of media and needing to know everything. We have apps for everything and its mobile. If we didn't have the media confusion and "posturing" would the lockout be over already??

Papps · #29 11-19-2012, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blayze

That will only end with one result - a cancelled season.

Negotiations are a highly emotionally charged process... there is a lot of pride and ego involved, it is not solely about the dollars or the logical rationale. When you make a bold move like that (let's forget publicly), you are no longer challenging them on sense and reason, but at that point you are challenging their own personal sense of pride. It is human nature for people to intuitively protect their sense of pride and self-worth... when people feel threatened on this front, then all rationale goes out the window.

In negotiations, you NEVER issue the ultimatum unless the other side has become totally unreasonable and you are 100% willing to live with the consequences.

A very good friend of mine last-year issued an ill-advised ultimatum to her long-term boyfriend... marry me or stop wasting my time. She didn't truly mean it and she wasn't ready to walk away from the relationship, but she foolishly thought her tactic would work and that he would come to his senses. I told her not to table the issue like that, and doing so would be like cornering a tiger. She did it anyway and he dumped her after a week. She was devastated and regrets it to this day.

I know in my marriage an ultimatum means I've lost either way. I think Bettman and the owners have the "cheaper to keeper" attitude. Better to keep workin it rather then suffer its fate. And possibly earlier then needed.

The lockout has turned me sour. In 2004 there wasn't as much media and social networking as now. Not everything was leaked. Anybody else see how much the media was scrambling when the "unknown location" or "secret meeting" was held by the NHL & PA? They didn't know something and it was killing them.

My point is who knew there were so many murderers or disasters before the news & Internet? Social media has allowed is to be monsters. Monsters of media and needing to know everything. We have apps for everything and its mobile. If we didn't have the media confusion and "posturing" would the lockout be over already??

Maaaasquito · #30 11-19-2012, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blayze

That will only end with one result - a cancelled season.

Negotiations are a highly emotionally charged process... there is a lot of pride and ego involved, it is not solely about the dollars or the logical rationale. When you make a bold move like that (let's forget publicly), you are no longer challenging them on sense and reason, but at that point you are challenging their own personal sense of pride. It is human nature for people to intuitively protect their sense of pride and self-worth... when people feel threatened on this front, then all rationale goes out the window.

In negotiations, you NEVER issue the ultimatum unless the other side has become totally unreasonable and you are 100% willing to live with the consequences.

A very good friend of mine last-year issued an ill-advised ultimatum to her long-term boyfriend... marry me or stop wasting my time. She didn't truly mean it and she wasn't ready to walk away from the relationship, but she foolishly thought her tactic would work and that he would come to his senses. I told her not to table the issue like that, and doing so would be like cornering a tiger. She did it anyway and he dumped her after a week. She was devastated and regrets it to this day.

I completely agree with you, the problem is all this politicking is going no where... Look at what the NHL has done, started at 43%, saying that's our best offer, then moving it to 47% and saying that's our best offer, then 50% and saying that's our best offer, then maybe tomorrow they go 51% and that's our best offer, they've constantly moved the bar at every offer... So if I were the players, I'd look at that and say well they've moved it this far, why wouldn't they move it some more, might as well wait... So might as well hold out for a "better" offer later.

What I'm saying is all this posturing is sending mix messages, and continues to give the players a glimmer of hope for a better deal 2 weeks down the track. So why wouldn't they reject any deal the NHL proposes and wait for a better one 2 weeks later?

All the NHL is doing is "threatening" the loss of a season, the players under Fehr don't actually believe it will happen (or they all would have flocked overseas already), they think the NHL has a self imposed deadline, and will hold out for the best possible deal, so we just sit and wait, while they posture and move the mark slowly to the middle.

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