Good point- and especially the old Achilles too. However, I will say I partially tore my tricep out of just overdoing and I've never done anything more than a protein shake.

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G: J Quick, A Niemi, C Anderson, Rinne

Haha I tore my left pectoral is major and have only taken protein shakes too. Don't think it's very common but can happen when you try to make gains too quickly without proper rest.

I know the NFL does drug testing regularly, I think 4 times a year, but I may be wrong. There are many ways around drug tests though.

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" You said you don't give a f*ck about hockey. I've never heard anyone say that before."

Achilles tear pretty common though in regular people, middle aged guys playing soccer or racquet ball, and even women.

yah I guess you can get it from lifting too much weight but 90% of the patients I have seen get these complete rupture of the tendon off bone injuries look like Scott Steiner.

One average looking guy got his arm stuck in a Parasol or sun shade, that got blew 10-20 feet by a strong wind but the rest are hugely muscled.

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Bumped ^^

Change title to "Lance Armstrong stripped of his 7 TDF"

Why is this not getting any discussion today??

His empire has finally burned to the ground...and to think, I bought a Trek road bike....

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no doubt, losing the 7 titles is a big story...

but just wait till the law suites start piling in (some have started) and this guy's empire crumbles - livestrong included. then you will have a story. the biggest sports story of our time...

Yeah - this is just the tip of the iceberg.

What Lance has done for cancer and for people all over the world is amazing - whatever drove him to get there - greed, cheating, an insatiable will to win - you can't ignore that he has directly and positively impacted thousands and hundreds of thousands of people.

It, unfortunately, isn't black and white between him cheating as an athlete and him succeeding as as cancer activist.

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lots of evidence already and i think more will come, but armstrong wasn't the activist people think he was. livestrong got armstrong rich, rich, rich and it didn't do a hell of a lot for cancer research or cancer victims... in fact, livestrong never spent one penny on any kind of cancer research or testing. it's all part of why this story will be so big. just wait.

Can I read more about this anywhere?

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Of course he juiced! But I'm not so sure that I care. Isn't that what cycling is all about?

I've honestly reached the point where I'm not so sure steroids and all the different performance enhancers out there don't have a place in sports. I mean, if a guy can get surgery to have a ligament replaced, how is that different from having your own red blood cells harvested and re-injected into yourself as they tend to do in blood doping.

We've come so far with technology that the lines have completely become blurred with regard to performance enhancement. How far is too far? Where is the line? I'm sure we'd all agree that Barry Bonds probably crossed the line because he literally increased the size of his own head like three inches but if Bonds was a more likeable human being would we really care so much about his juicing.

What about knee braces? What about those tensor bandages that hold your muscles in just the right place? What about swimmers shaving their bodies to streamline themselves? Aren't these all "unnatural" performance enhancement?

What about Pistorius? Will we ever reach a point where having robot legs is UNQUESTIONABLY an advantage to the point where people are intentionally having their legs amputated? I'm sure we can all agree that that would be crossing a line but at the same time should we put a stop to Pistorius now? How much does that lack general humanitarianism?

How about a hockey and football example? Nevermind the fact that I am absolutely CERTAIN that there are a large number of juicers in both sports, whether we know about it or not but think about all the concussion issues in these sports. If your big argument against steroids is that it puts athletes at a risk of shortening their life and of having future health problems well what of football and hockey? We know that concussions in these sports are going to shorten these players lives but we accept that as collateral damage, as just part of the job.

Even if you take concussions off the table, since they are fast becoming the new big issue in sports taking over for what steroids were in the late 90s early 00s, you still have to consider all the other wear and tear on an athlete's body to be detrimental to his future and that is simply the result of playing and nothing else. It's part of the risk you take going into these sports. If you want to be the best and continue in these sports then you have to pay the price. If you aren't willing to take the risks, be it injuries, steroids, what have you, then chances are you aren't cut out to succeed in these sports. Now there's no saying that you can't do it cleanly, just like there's no saying that you can't do it while also avoiding long term debilitating injuries, but the big part of that is simple random luck. You have to win the genetic Olympics and no amount of doping can change that. If you really aren't willing to train harder/faster and suffer through the long term injuries then guess what? Like the rest of us mere mortals you need to get a real job... like that's truly a bad thing.

And having said all that, I still don't really know where I stand. Some steroid users I hate. Other ones I could care less about. It's so clear to me that my opinion with regard to these athletes has everything to do with my perception of them beyond the steroids. So how do I really feel about steroids? I don't know. I really don't. I can see both sides of it and I definitely think we need to know more because I do think there is a way to performance enhance in a way that isn't detrimental to player health but I don't know for sure. Can you guys see where I'm coming from? Is anyone else equally conflicted?

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i shouldn't have said LA didn't do anything for cancer victims, because it is undeniable that he provided hope for countless people who didn't/don't have much else to cling to. bad choice of words on my part... but there have been lots of grumblings in the cycling world about what a fraud armstrong is on the track and in his'business' for a few years now.

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor....html?page=all

and metaldude, steroids and/or cheating are never okay... they take away the spirit of competition and they don't allow those who want to compete cleanly an equal playing field. steroids and knee braces aren't even remotely comparable.