I recently bought the Fantasy Guide as well as the Prospect Guide and I have been doin research to prepare for my keeper draft. I planned on taking Elliott with my first selection (11th overall) but I am confused with Dobbers rankings.

In the Fantasy Guide for the "rise of the D-men" section he has Elliott scoring ~40 pts this year and in his top 25 for upside/3YP, yet in the Prospect Guide he has Elliott ranked far down his list behind less touted players of Top 50 Prospects he would draft in a keeper and Renaud has him even further down his list. As a future 55 pt d-man shouldnt he be selected at least in the top 10 of prospects?
I am just having trouble putting a value on Elliott with these mixed opinions.
Anyone wanna help me out here?

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12 Team H2H Keeper
Keep 15
12 F, 6 D, 2 G, 6 Bench
G A P PPP PIM +/- W SV% GAA

F: Malkin, Perry, H Sedin, D Sedin, St. Louis, Kesler, Fleischmann, Lecavalier, Selanne, Dupuis, Sullivan, C Smith, Malone
D: Chara, Streit, Boyle, Visnovsky, Bieksa, Robidas
G: Lundqvist, Luongo, Neuvirth, Reimer

Prospects: Lack, S Elliott, Dalpe, Atkinson, Vatanen, Bouwman, Gerbe, Petrov, Eakin, Savard, Marincin, Shore, Galiev, Barberio, McNeill

id take him at 11th.

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10 team Keeper Roto League
4C-4LW-4RW-6D-2G-5bench-unlimited farm.

C= crosby,m.koivu,malkin,zajak,grabovski,j.jokinen,
LW= ovechkin,nash,s.gagner,dubinsky
RW= downie,hemsky,callahan,voracek,perry,mueller
D= green,doughty,phaneuf,wisniewski,girardi,karlsson
G= rask,lundqvist,ward,price

FARM=kreider,grachev,petrov,enroth,kuznetsov,ennis ,rundblad,bjugstad,radulov,montoya, adam,t.erixon,cowan,s.elliot,j.faulk,cormier,petro v,orlov,stone,eakin,grigorenko,silfverberg,brodin, atkinson

--G,A,P,PPP,SHP,GWG,PIMS,+/-,SOG,hits,FOW,blocks-Wins,GAA,SV%,saves,SO

When comparing Elliott to forwards, I can see why he is down on Dobber's list in the guide. That said, in leagues that need dmen, Elliott should be pretty damn high on any list. I'd certainly grab him with your 11th overall pick, if you can snag him then. He will be a stud.

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10 team league, multi-cat, full keeper.

Forwards: J. Toews, J. Tavares, J. Eberle, J. Neal, A. Kopitar, T. Seguin, E. Kane, M. Duchene, J. Benn, M. Ryder, D. Brown, B. Marchand

Defense: A. Pietrangelo, K. Shattenkirk, A. Goligoski, PK Subban, J. Carlson, J. Spurgeon

Goalies: M. Smith, A. Niemi

Bench: R. Clowe, B. Dubinsky, M. Calvert, P. Mueller, D. Clarkson, M. Carle, M. Niskanen, P. Wiercioch, J. Halak, A. Lindback

Pretty much my thoughts right there.

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macv@dobberbaseball.com
DobberBaseball Columnist- http://baseball.dobbersports.com/ind...layout=default
Detroit Red Wings coverage
Twitter- @MacVincent1

I selected him in a previous draft and have him on the farm roster and he has become a great asset as many people in my pool have enquired about him in trade offers. I won the pool last year and have a very strong team this year so i can use him as trade bait if need be. I would select him with that pick IF he is still available then..

I wonder if I've been busy playing Fantasy too long. Prospect D-men scare the tar out of me.

In June I drafted Elliott about 18th overall in our forever pool. I flipped him shortly thereafter for a top 5 pick this coming year. Now, the numbers he put up in Jr. are indisputable. They are some awesome. However, Junior numbers don't always translate to the next level. D-men are notorious for having to refine their game to be successful in the NHL. Forwards have these troubles too. Ian Laperriere of the Philadelphia Flyers, long time agitator/low level goon, bagged 140 points in his finest year of Jr. Ramzi Abid won several scoring titles.

One thing really bothers me about Elliott. 14 PM. The last guy that was that pure of mind, or angelic, that sticks out in my head is Kyle Wellwood. Wellwood achieved no penalties during a 100 point season.

Every night, for almost 80 games this past year, the opposing coach told his team, "Beat the living beegeebers out of Elliott". They also told their players "Don't worry about going into the corner with him, he doesn't give you the dirty."

Even on lower level hockey you tell your teams this simple kind of stuff, when you have the information.

Jan 30 1991
Dec 8 1989

That's Elliott's birthday, followed by Doughty's birthday. So, while Elliott was busy putting up 85 points in Jr., Doughty at the same age was recording 59 points in the NHL.

The final element is the view on the Colorado blueline. At first glance, I thought the Av's were shockingly thin. However, the more you review their guys, the fuller you begin to realize that blueline is. Now, they did give away Liles. Why did they do that? He's early in his prime, and suits a rebuild. Why did they do that? I bet there is some good thinking behind it.

On the blueline
Kyle Cumisky - played for USA at Worlds 2010, smooth, health issues. Ideal 3rd offensive D-man?
Jan Hejda - some tout as an Elite shut down guy
Matt Hunwick - journeyman? offense? on the verge? perennial disappointment?
EJ - clearly their cornerstone piece, ready to be full meal
Shane O'Brien - rugged stay at home vet
Ryan O'Byrne - just signed 2 year $3.6M, stay at home defender
Kyle Quincey - proven offensive upside, another guy ideal as 3rd offensive D-man?
Ryan Wilson - shutdown D-man, 2 seasons under belt, big points in Jr.

Aspirants
Tyson Barrie (potential offensive star, with a bit of sand paper)
Colby Cohen (stay at home defender)
Cameron Gaunce (stay at home defender)
Jonas Holos (touted for offense, has shown defence, 39 career GP)
David Liffiton (stay at home, if NHL then the time is now)

So, I don't think they're gift wrapping anything for Elliott. I suspect we'll see some AHL and some work on his defensive game.

Is he worthy of your 1st rounder? Yes. However, the guys in Fantasy have artificially pushed up his value/stature, just a little too much. I traded him while the value was high.

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Best One Moment Wonders
Darryl Sittler (10 point game)
Tom Bladon (8 point game - blueliner)
Sam Gagner (8 point game)
Al Hill (5 points in 1st NHL game)
Brian Boucher (5 consecutive SO)
Ian Turnbull (5 goal game)
Stastny Brothers (16 point game)

I fail to see how looking at PIM's alone can make you as wary of Elliot as you seem to be.

Please take one minute of your time to review this legendary career:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...y.php?pid=3146

If you were to use PIM's as an indicator of this players defensive accumen you'd have to rank him among the worst of alltime!!

Do I think Elliot might be the next Lidstrom? Hell no, but I think he could be this guy:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...y.php?pid=4438

The PIM means absolutely nothing to me unless it's backed up with a more well rounded scouting report of the players tendencies. Even if a d-man is adverse to physical contact it certainly doesn't mean he can't be an amazing fantasy hockey contributor.

The sheer fact that Elliot was a +62 should indicate that his defensive game is solid.......just in case anyone missed that I'll repeat PLUS 62!!!! There is simply no way to ignore that statistic.


p.s. Cohen is no longer in Colorado, they moved him to Boston.

I'm with JHM in being skeptical about Elliott.

He might end up being a fantastic defenseman... but none of his stats at any level have been particularly impressive when compared to peers of of the same age. So he dominated the CHL last year... so what? He was nearly two years older than the average player in the league.

Maybe he's one of those prospects that really comes on a little later than most, but if I'm going to take a risk on a prospect (and they're all risks!) I'd rather have a guy who has produced numbers that stand out when compared to other guys of a similar age.

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I like Elliott and it has nothing to do with stats at all. Nothing to do with his pt totals or his lack of PIMs. I like him because of the way he plays the game and the opportunity he will have with Colorado, at some point. If not this year, then within 2-3 years he will be running Colorado's top PP unit, because quite frankly he is the best offensive defenseman in the organization. Playing on the top PP unit with Stastny and Duchene will make Elliott a fantasy star.

There is more to analyzing a hockey player's potential than stats. Just like it is unfair to anoint Elliott a future fantasy star because of his stats, you shouldn't use them against him either just because he was older than his peers. Stats do not tell the whole picture. You watch Elliott play the game, and you won't care what his stats are. He will be a stud.

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10 team league, multi-cat, full keeper.

Forwards: J. Toews, J. Tavares, J. Eberle, J. Neal, A. Kopitar, T. Seguin, E. Kane, M. Duchene, J. Benn, M. Ryder, D. Brown, B. Marchand

Defense: A. Pietrangelo, K. Shattenkirk, A. Goligoski, PK Subban, J. Carlson, J. Spurgeon

Goalies: M. Smith, A. Niemi

Bench: R. Clowe, B. Dubinsky, M. Calvert, P. Mueller, D. Clarkson, M. Carle, M. Niskanen, P. Wiercioch, J. Halak, A. Lindback

Also, I kind of like that Elliott is a bit older than his peers. Being a bit older before joining the NHL didn't hurt Carlson or Subban. Sometimes being a bit older means you are more ready to be an NHL player. Not everyone can be Doughty, and no one is saying that Elliott will be Doughty.

If Elliott was younger, people would be saying he is too young to contribute right away and he needs time to adjust to the NHL. Because he is older, you are saying you can't trust his stats because he is two years older than his competition! I don't get it. You can't have it both ways.

I also agree that taking any prospect is a risk, but perhaps especially dmen. That said, every once in a while a dman comes along that is less a risk than most. Recently we have seen all kinds of dmen join the NHL (some younger, some a bit older) and have an immediate impact. I'm quite happy to have snagged the likes of Subban, Carlson, Shattenkirk, and Myers earlier than others might normally grab dmen. Sure, there are players McBain, OEL, and Hedman who take more time to develop. But there are also other dmen who jump onto the scene and don't ever look back. You have to be able to identify these kids. I'm not saying Elliott will definitely be in the same group as Subban and co., but he will be closer to that group than OEL and co.

The only thing I worry about with Elliott is when he will make the Avs. Clearly people are correct in saying that the blueline is full, for the most part of average dmen. But even as average dmen, they will take spots away from Elliott, so we might not see him at the beginning of the season, or perhaps not until the year after. But make no mistake, once Elliott is on the team, he will make it hard for the Avs to send him back down, similar to Shattenkirk last year, who didn't make the team out of training camp, but once called up Colorado had to keep him in the lineup, even when their regulars were healthy again.

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10 team league, multi-cat, full keeper.

Forwards: J. Toews, J. Tavares, J. Eberle, J. Neal, A. Kopitar, T. Seguin, E. Kane, M. Duchene, J. Benn, M. Ryder, D. Brown, B. Marchand

Defense: A. Pietrangelo, K. Shattenkirk, A. Goligoski, PK Subban, J. Carlson, J. Spurgeon

Goalies: M. Smith, A. Niemi

Bench: R. Clowe, B. Dubinsky, M. Calvert, P. Mueller, D. Clarkson, M. Carle, M. Niskanen, P. Wiercioch, J. Halak, A. Lindback