Phaneuf - the real reason for the fall off?... - Fantasy Sports Forums

Buck Fush · #1 03-17-2011, 12:49 PM

So dion has been a pretty frustrating guy to own, especially in my keeper where we use a salary cap, but his recent surge (11 pts in 13 gms since Kaberle got traded) got me thinking... Could it all have been simply about sloppy seconds?

I'm not talking about defense here cause I know Dion runs around too much looking for big hits and gets himself out of position among other various bone headed plays, BUT if you isolate the times during his career when he is NOT his teams undisputed top dman, the stats are pretty interesting. If you look at his numbers after Bouwmeester arrived in Calgary and before Kaberle was traded out of Toronto, they are pretty darn ugly:

123 GP: 14-34-48, 150 PIM, 357 SOG
82 GP average: 9-23-32, 100 PIM, 238 SOG

Now, if you isolate his stats when he ISN'T the sloppy seconds dman:

336 GP: 70-147-217, 481 PIM, 1045 SOG
82 GP average: 17-36-53, 117 PIM, 255 SOG

I didn't take the time to work it out but there is a similar discrepancy between his PP production when isolating the two scenarios.

So, are we seeing a return to form from dion because he isn't worried about having to play second fiddle on his teams defense corps? Shit I hope so! But only time will tell..

TK12555 · #2 03-17-2011, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buck Fush

So dion has been a pretty frustrating guy to own, especially in my keeper where we use a salary cap, but his recent surge (11 pts in 13 gms since Kaberle got traded) got me thinking... Could it all have been simply about sloppy seconds?

I'm not talking about defense here cause I know Dion runs around too much looking for big hits and gets himself out of position among other various bone headed plays, BUT if you isolate the times during his career when he is NOT his teams undisputed top dman, the stats are pretty interesting. If you look at his numbers after Bouwmeester arrived in Calgary and before Kaberle was traded out of Toronto, they are pretty darn ugly:

123 GP: 14-34-48, 150 PIM, 357 SOG
82 GP average: 9-23-32, 100 PIM, 238 SOG

Now, if you isolate his stats when he ISN'T the sloppy seconds dman:

336 GP: 70-147-217, 481 PIM, 1045 SOG
82 GP average: 17-36-53, 117 PIM, 255 SOG

I didn't take the time to work it out but there is a similar discrepancy between his PP production when isolating the two scenarios.

So, are we seeing a return to form from dion because he isn't worried about having to play second fiddle on his teams defense corps? Shit I hope so! But only time will tell..

amazing post! This is what I've been trying to say. Phaneuf does not like being 2nd fiddle. He is a 1st d-man, and wants to be that. When he's not the center of offense for the defense core, he feels more compelled to change his game, which isn't good for him. But he should keep this up. Great stats.

ridinryan44 · #3 03-17-2011, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buck Fush

So dion has been a pretty frustrating guy to own, especially in my keeper where we use a salary cap, but his recent surge (11 pts in 13 gms since Kaberle got traded) got me thinking... Could it all have been simply about sloppy seconds?

I'm not talking about defense here cause I know Dion runs around too much looking for big hits and gets himself out of position among other various bone headed plays, BUT if you isolate the times during his career when he is NOT his teams undisputed top dman, the stats are pretty interesting. If you look at his numbers after Bouwmeester arrived in Calgary and before Kaberle was traded out of Toronto, they are pretty darn ugly:

123 GP: 14-34-48, 150 PIM, 357 SOG
82 GP average: 9-23-32, 100 PIM, 238 SOG

Now, if you isolate his stats when he ISN'T the sloppy seconds dman:

336 GP: 70-147-217, 481 PIM, 1045 SOG
82 GP average: 17-36-53, 117 PIM, 255 SOG

I didn't take the time to work it out but there is a similar discrepancy between his PP production when isolating the two scenarios.

So, are we seeing a return to form from dion because he isn't worried about having to play second fiddle on his teams defense corps? Shit I hope so! But only time will tell..

Does this mean you WON'T trade him to me for Jiri Hudler and PMB?

kevinsrangers · #4 03-17-2011, 01:03 PM

i hope keeping phanuef for the last 5 years is finnaly gonna pay off.
ive been getting offers for him for the last couple of seasons but i just couldnt give up on him.
i hope he is for real.

DuklaNation · #5 03-17-2011, 01:04 PM

I think with Kaberle, he became the type to hold the puck too much while Phaneuf moves or shoots more aggressively. With him gone, the defence has to pressure the other side more. JayBo is just a pure overrated offensive d-man and would bring anyone else down with him.

Veritas0Aequitas · #6 03-17-2011, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buck Fush

So dion has been a pretty frustrating guy to own, especially in my keeper where we use a salary cap, but his recent surge (11 pts in 13 gms since Kaberle got traded) got me thinking... Could it all have been simply about sloppy seconds?

I'm not talking about defense here cause I know Dion runs around too much looking for big hits and gets himself out of position among other various bone headed plays, BUT if you isolate the times during his career when he is NOT his teams undisputed top dman, the stats are pretty interesting. If you look at his numbers after Bouwmeester arrived in Calgary and before Kaberle was traded out of Toronto, they are pretty darn ugly:

123 GP: 14-34-48, 150 PIM, 357 SOG
82 GP average: 9-23-32, 100 PIM, 238 SOG

Now, if you isolate his stats when he ISN'T the sloppy seconds dman:

336 GP: 70-147-217, 481 PIM, 1045 SOG
82 GP average: 17-36-53, 117 PIM, 255 SOG

I didn't take the time to work it out but there is a similar discrepancy between his PP production when isolating the two scenarios.

So, are we seeing a return to form from dion because he isn't worried about having to play second fiddle on his teams defense corps? Shit I hope so! But only time will tell..

Great analysis! Rep coming your way. This is why I never jumped the gun and traded Phanuef for a bag of pucks. I knew he would be worth the wait once Kabs was gone. Thanks for doing this!

theIceWookie · #7 03-17-2011, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buck Fush

So dion has been a pretty frustrating guy to own, especially in my keeper where we use a salary cap, but his recent surge (11 pts in 13 gms since Kaberle got traded) got me thinking... Could it all have been simply about sloppy seconds?

I'm not talking about defense here cause I know Dion runs around too much looking for big hits and gets himself out of position among other various bone headed plays, BUT if you isolate the times during his career when he is NOT his teams undisputed top dman, the stats are pretty interesting. If you look at his numbers after Bouwmeester arrived in Calgary and before Kaberle was traded out of Toronto, they are pretty darn ugly:

123 GP: 14-34-48, 150 PIM, 357 SOG
82 GP average: 9-23-32, 100 PIM, 238 SOG

Now, if you isolate his stats when he ISN'T the sloppy seconds dman:

336 GP: 70-147-217, 481 PIM, 1045 SOG
82 GP average: 17-36-53, 117 PIM, 255 SOG

I didn't take the time to work it out but there is a similar discrepancy between his PP production when isolating the two scenarios.

So, are we seeing a return to form from dion because he isn't worried about having to play second fiddle on his teams defense corps? Shit I hope so! But only time will tell..

In answer to your question, yes and no.

Phaneuf wasn't doing well in Calgary because of two things.

1) He was no longer the number 1 guy when Bouwmeester came in and then Giordano stepped up.
2) He was coddled by Sutter as the next Norris guy. He had it to easy.

When Phaneuf came to Toronto he needed to find his game. He started working on his defense and because of that his offensive game suffered (along with the offense in Toronto being abysmal, which also affected him). He was handed the captaincy and it clearly affected him. He needed to learn how to deal with the pressure. It took some time to get used too. Than he got injured with that skate to the leg. That delayed him putting it all together. When he came back he was actually much better (22 points in 40 or so games, plus 4, 7 goals, 2.7 hits a game from than till now).

Even than he needed to work his game back. He started to gain strength in his legs slowly and it started to come back. Around January he started to hit more and he started to make highlight reel hits. He started to get his confidence back and than on Jan 20 he hit a 3 point streak and he ramped up his game big time.

He started playing much better and started to lead the team. He was putting his defensive play, his offensive play and his leadership all together. Kaberle left and he decided to take it on himself to lead the team and BAM he never looked back. Phaneuf is back and yes he has always played better and always will play better when he is the man.

I think you can probably expect 10 goals, 40 points, 200 plus hits, 130 plus blocks, and the regular 200 plus shots he gets plus 25 minutes a game he plays. If the offense in Toronto improves, he could easily push those point totals up to 15 goals, 50 points.

Buck Fush · #8 03-31-2011, 05:57 PM

Last 17 GP: 6-9-15, +5, 15 PIM, 7 PPP, 40 SOG.

The phaneuf train is back, and all signs point to a big year next season!

metaldude26 · #9 03-31-2011, 06:55 PM

If this is true then it's all mental because the Leafs made him the focal point of their powerplay the minute they got him and if it is mental then what a wonderful captain. I ain't complaining about the production though, I'm glad to see Phaneuf re-invigorated.

Dutch · #10 03-31-2011, 07:00 PM

Phaneuf is a whiner... Lost a lot of respect for that kid in the last year here in Calgary...

When you are his age, you do what you are told on the team, not the other way around...

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