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#231
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I believe Teemu had this exact injury when he was 23 or 24 so . . . yeah, I think Karlsson will be just fine next year.
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Keeper - 23 Man Roster (17 Keepers) + 8 Man Farm Team G,A,P,PIM,PPP,SHP,GWG,+/-,FW,Shots, Hits - GP,W,L,GAA,SV%,SV,SA,SO C: Stamkos, Berglund, Gagner (RW), Turris, Zibanejad LW: Kovalchuk (RW), Benn (C), Kunitz, Lupul (RW), Mcdonald (C) RW: Iginla, P. Kane (C), Oshie (C), Pominville D: Phaneuf, Shattenkirk, Kulikov, Leddy, Carlson, Faulk, Kindl G: Fleury, Lehtonen, Anderson Farm: Niederreiter, Kuznetsov, Connolly, Soderberg, R. Murphy, Morrow, Gardiner, Rielly |
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#232
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Quote:
I think the problem we're having is with the definition of "intent". You seem to equate intent with "motive". Intent, as I understand it, is not an individual's motive in carrying out an action. So, I don't think it has to be established that he intended to cut Karlsson's achilles, or that he intended to cut him at all. That's motive. Here's a wikipedia article that I hope will explain what I'm getting at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea The issue in ethics is moral blameworthiness. If I see a crowd of people and I fire a gun and person A dies, I can honestly say that I didn't intend to hurt or kill person A. However, that doesn't mean I escape culpability for their death. If, on an objective analysis, it can be said that I fired the weapon recklessly, that means that I knew or ought to have known that death or injury was the probable result of my decision to fire the weapon. Knowing that, and still firing, makes me culpable for person A's death just as it would if directly fired at him with a motive to kill. So "intent" refers to the belief that people intend the natural (or probable) causes of their actions. To determine what is "reckless", some thought would have to be given for what is a normal everyday play in that situation. Can we fairly impute knowledge on Cooke that by lifting his leg and bringing it down and forward with force (which he did), that he knew or ought to have known their was a serious risk of a skate cut? If so, unless the action itself is so inherent to the game that players can be taken to have voluntarily assumed an obvious risk, then it is reckless. As I tried to explain (and maybe I'm not doing it very well), "recklessness" is a level of intent. Remember in my example, I may not have intended to injure person A, but I did intend to fire the weapon at a crowd while I knew or ought to have known that an injury or death was a likely result and therefore from an ethical point of view, I am culpable for the death. Now, I fully admitted at the outset that I was not in a position at this point to conclude beyond doubt that the play was reckless. My point is that if you accept that it was reckless, as Dakkster did, that leads to a logical and ethical conclusion that Cooke did something morally wrong and deserves consequences. That is not synonymous with an "accident". I suspect that he was reckless, but I have not taken the time to analyze it and study similar plays to the point where I can comfortably say he was in fact reckless. If I was so satisfied, then I would be advocating for a severe punishment. So, I think the problem between us is that we have a different definition for intent. To me, "intent" means that a person intends the natural or probable consequences of their actions. As I understand your definition, "intent" would mean a subjective motive. Now, as for a subjective motive, yes I do suspect. That's a reaction to watching the situation and considering the past practices of the actor involved. And I would submit that that is a permissible logical inference that can be drawn from the situation. You could also conclude that it was an accident. That's why in my posts above that I wasn't calling for Cooke's head. I still believe however that concluding beyond doubt that it was an accident and that anyone who disagrees is an irrational Senators' fan is intellectually dishonest.
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10-team Keeper. Everyone keeps 12 (last season - Bold) + 3 (players with less than 164 NHL games played -last season - Bold Italics). Points for G (2), A (2), PIM (.1), Hit (.1) SHP(1), W(4), SO(8) Must dress 4C, 4LW, 4RW, 6D, 1G C - E. Staal, Tavares , Bergeron, Turris, Zibanejad, Granlund LW - Kovalchuk, E. Kane, Pacioretty, Zetterberg Filpulla, Latendresse RW - Iginla,Wheeler, Pominville, Tarasenko, Doan, Silfverberg D - Karlsson, Phaneuf, Edler, Green, Kronwall, Pitkanen, Keith, Burns G - Rinne, Schneider My all time favourites: |
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#233
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Quote:
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10tm Dynasty Lg - $70M CAP G A PTS +/- PIM PPP SOG W GAA SV% SO C: J. Carter, H Sedin, E. Staal RW: P. Kane, Stewart LW: Semin, Couture D: Pietrangelo, Hamhuis, Subban, Carlson G: Lundqvist, Price UTIL: Plekanec, Ennis, Perron, D. Brown Farm D: B. Smith, Morrow F: Brassard, Williams, Niederreiter, Little, Okposo, Whitney, Nyquist, Kesler G: S. Mason, Ward Prospect: F - Z. Kassian, Spooner, Kuznetsov, Tatar, Teravainen, Stone, Connolly D - Matt Dumba |
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#234
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You're right, perhaps I think about it too much because of the emotional investment. In any case, thanks for remaining civil during the exchange.
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10-team Keeper. Everyone keeps 12 (last season - Bold) + 3 (players with less than 164 NHL games played -last season - Bold Italics). Points for G (2), A (2), PIM (.1), Hit (.1) SHP(1), W(4), SO(8) Must dress 4C, 4LW, 4RW, 6D, 1G C - E. Staal, Tavares , Bergeron, Turris, Zibanejad, Granlund LW - Kovalchuk, E. Kane, Pacioretty, Zetterberg Filpulla, Latendresse RW - Iginla,Wheeler, Pominville, Tarasenko, Doan, Silfverberg D - Karlsson, Phaneuf, Edler, Green, Kronwall, Pitkanen, Keith, Burns G - Rinne, Schneider My all time favourites: |
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#235
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No.
(filler because the post is too short otherwise)
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GO WINGS! 12 team H2H dynasty, most categories under the sun, incl. hits/blocks. Main team, farm C: Kopitar Backstrom Stepan Cammalleri Little Bolland Laich Johnson LW: Parise Lupul Erat McDonald Martin Silfverberg Nyquist Schwartz Morin Nieto Conacher RW: PKane Doan Pominville Nash Clowe Lupul Rinaldo Stafford Rattie Stone Chiasson Ritchie D: Green Suter Seabrook Dillon Beauchemin Schenn Letang Schultz Hamilton McNabb Rielly Harrison G: Bryzgalov Pavelec Holtby Neuvirth Nihlstorp Lack CalPickard Andersen Stalock Sateri Eriksson IR: Halak |
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#236
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Well its not intentional it is certainly irresponsible.
And failure to correct a consistant course hedges on intentional |
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#237
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His second season, game 51 - I am pretty sure it was completely severed. Ironically it was against the Ducks (Trent Yawney's skate if I remember correctly).
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16 Tm Dynasty,DailyH2H 3C,6W,4D,1G;G,A,PIM,+/-,STP,SOG,Hits,FOW,W,SO,GA,S C-Kopitar,Carter,Zajac,Bailey W-Perry,Parise,Neal,Oshie,JvR,Clarkson,M.Foligno,Sil vferberg,Chiasson D-Yandle,J.Johnson,Carlson,Nikitin,Dillon,Barrie G-Ward,Bernier Fm-Holland,Shore,Pulkkinen,Teravainen,Jensen,Rundblad,Morrow,Barber io,Krug 10 Tm-8F,4D,2G Weekly F-Stamkos,MSL,E.Staal,Toews,Seguin,Duchene,E.Kane,St epan,J.Staal,Brown,Silfverberg,Johansen D-Keith,Seabrook,Voynov,Bogo,Wideman,Fowler G-Price,Rask,Dubnyk Fm-Tarasenko,Scheifele,Atkinson,Faksa,Smith,Orlov,Rie lly,Trouba,Markstrom |
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#238
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Quote:
(filler)
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GO WINGS! 12 team H2H dynasty, most categories under the sun, incl. hits/blocks. Main team, farm C: Kopitar Backstrom Stepan Cammalleri Little Bolland Laich Johnson LW: Parise Lupul Erat McDonald Martin Silfverberg Nyquist Schwartz Morin Nieto Conacher RW: PKane Doan Pominville Nash Clowe Lupul Rinaldo Stafford Rattie Stone Chiasson Ritchie D: Green Suter Seabrook Dillon Beauchemin Schenn Letang Schultz Hamilton McNabb Rielly Harrison G: Bryzgalov Pavelec Holtby Neuvirth Nihlstorp Lack CalPickard Andersen Stalock Sateri Eriksson IR: Halak |
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