Who said anything about them being defensively better? Don't put words in my mouth. And for the most part, the defensemen they lost were crap anyway so I don't see why that's such a big deal.

__________________
2013 Bay Street CBS Playoff Cash Pool - $100 buyin
12 Teams, Points Only (G/A = 1, DG = 2, W = 2, SO = 1)

The Motherpuckers (5 NYR, 2 PIT, 3 VAN)
Forwards: Neal / Iginla / Nash / Richards / Stepan / Roy / Higgins
Defense: Del Zotto / Garrison
Goalies: Lundqvist

If Lehtonen is Lehtonen... how do those numbers improve unless the team is better defensively?
(And don't act like you don't infer things from statements.)

Dude... I said: "I think their team has actually improved this year". That's a lot different then "I think their team has improved defensively this year".

If those are the kind of inferences you're making then damn... I want a hit of that joint.

So let me get this straight... you're suggesting numbers can only improve if a team is better defensively? There's this other facet of the game called offense, you may have heard of it. The Stars made great strides in improving their depth on that end this year, which should translate to a sick powerplay, more goals, more time spent in the offensive zone, and more wins.

__________________
2013 Bay Street CBS Playoff Cash Pool - $100 buyin
12 Teams, Points Only (G/A = 1, DG = 2, W = 2, SO = 1)

The Motherpuckers (5 NYR, 2 PIT, 3 VAN)
Forwards: Neal / Iginla / Nash / Richards / Stepan / Roy / Higgins
Defense: Del Zotto / Garrison
Goalies: Lundqvist

Don't make me have to separate you two!

__________________
12 H2H w/ daily changes.
G,A,+/-,PPP,SOG,W,GAA,Sv%.
Keep 6 (5 F/D, 1 D/G) Start 2C, 2LW, 2RW, 3D, 2Util, 2G

C: Getzlaf, Bergeron, Roy, Boyes (RW)
LW: Kovalchuk (RW), Vanek, Lucic
RW: Gaborik, Callahan, C. Stewart, Tarasenko, Chiasson
D: Yandle, Doughty, Goligoski, Carlson
G: Fleury, Varlamov, Markstrom
IR:

Well I don't like having words put into my mouth, nor do I like being accused of wearing "blinders" for making a reasonable statement with a hint of cautious optimism.

__________________
2013 Bay Street CBS Playoff Cash Pool - $100 buyin
12 Teams, Points Only (G/A = 1, DG = 2, W = 2, SO = 1)

The Motherpuckers (5 NYR, 2 PIT, 3 VAN)
Forwards: Neal / Iginla / Nash / Richards / Stepan / Roy / Higgins
Defense: Del Zotto / Garrison
Goalies: Lundqvist

I'm with Penguin on this one blayze, how is Dallas better defensively than last year? Personally when I see a player have a huge record year at this point in their career it sets off all the red flags and I'm thinking 'sell', not 'buy'

__________________
Thats me on the street with a violin under my chin, playing with a grin, singing gibberish.





P=1 DPts=1.2 +/-=.32 PIM=.08 PPP=.4 SHP=.6 S=.015 Blk=.2 Hit=.08
W=2 OTL=.8 GA=-.64 SV=.08 SO=3

Pro (23 keep 17)
C- Filppula,Turris,Stastny,Backstrom
D-Boyle,MDZ,Karlsson,Robidas,Goligoski,Schenn,Seiden berg
G-Anderson,Hiller,Rinne
LW-Malone,Parise,Rolston,Eriksson,Ruutu
RW-Alfredsson,Callahan,Setoguchi,Brown,Ryder,Vrbata

Farm (9 keep all, max 200 GP, 100 Goalies)
Colborne,Leblanc,Loktionov,Perreault,Tangradi,Blum ,Poulin,Markstrom

While I do agree with the point that Pengwin made about the team getting a lot softer, I don't really agree with the red flag perspective in this case. In Lehtonen's case a lot of what caused his career to derail was a lack of conditioning which led to more injuries which stunted his growth. Since getting to Dallas Lehtonen has been great, he's been on a new conditioning program that he seems to be following..and while I probably wouldn't describe Lehtonen as a hard buy, I don't think he's a guy that MUST be sold like some other players.

PS: I'm loving this discussion. I originally posted this thread as a joke but it's gotten very insightful.

Perhaps Pengwin and blayze are arguing over the wrong thing here. I think blayze is coming from his perspective league which is W/SO only while Pengwin is also considering percentages.

I think, when most people are talking about a goalie's numbers - they are thinking about his GAA & SV%.
And Blayze... you did reference those numbers, so I'm assuming that those numbers are important to YOU... not just wins.

I'll agree that the Stars might WIN more games.
But a team's defense has a major impact on GAA and a significant impact on SV%.
The Stars defensemen & defensive-forwards have both declined. I don't see how anybody could deny this. (not saying you are... not saying that...)
Their #4 (Souray), #6 (Burish), #7 (Ribeiro), and #8 (Ott) +/- guys from last year are all gone from last year's team.


You at least need to be clear what you are talking about with Lehtonen:
*Wins
*GAA? (you did reference this)
*SV%? (you referenced this too)

In Lehtonen's three years in Dallas he's posted .911/.914/.922 & 2.81/2.55/2.33... all improving numbers, which is good.
Improving numbers do happen as goalies learn exactly what to expect from their own team - what angles to play, what shots they allow, etc..
Goalies adapt to their environment and get better in it as they learn it.
When it changes, there can be trouble. (I posted in another thread about Ryan Miller, the year after he lost two key defensemen: Tallinder & Lydman).

With four defensemen gone & three solid +/- forwards gone from last year's team - how can anybody not forecast a decline (for GAA & SV%)?

I'll end my argument here.
You can have last go.
(I sent you some REP because I'm sorry we keep getting into it... )

I think you misunderstood me...I'm not saying sell him at all costs or anything, if you own him and are happy with him then by all means he can be a good 'hold' for you. I'm saying that the best time to sell a guy (any guy) is after they post career stats, especially at this point in their career. Every once in awhile you might be wrong with this but 99 times out of 100 you won't be.

Take another example, like Scott Hartnell...great player, I love him but here are his numbers since he entered the league (note: asterixes indicate injury seasons where I calculated his pts based off a full season for comparison sake):

16, 41, 34, 46*, 48, 50*, 43, 60, 44, 49, 67

does the shrewd GM buy him as a 67 pt forward or as a 50 pt forward?

__________________
Thats me on the street with a violin under my chin, playing with a grin, singing gibberish.





P=1 DPts=1.2 +/-=.32 PIM=.08 PPP=.4 SHP=.6 S=.015 Blk=.2 Hit=.08
W=2 OTL=.8 GA=-.64 SV=.08 SO=3

Pro (23 keep 17)
C- Filppula,Turris,Stastny,Backstrom
D-Boyle,MDZ,Karlsson,Robidas,Goligoski,Schenn,Seiden berg
G-Anderson,Hiller,Rinne
LW-Malone,Parise,Rolston,Eriksson,Ruutu
RW-Alfredsson,Callahan,Setoguchi,Brown,Ryder,Vrbata

Farm (9 keep all, max 200 GP, 100 Goalies)
Colborne,Leblanc,Loktionov,Perreault,Tangradi,Blum ,Poulin,Markstrom