...aaaand Granlund goes and gets 4 G 1A as I am confirming the deal...

__________________
16 Tm Dynasty,DailyH2H
3C,6W,4D,1G;G,A,PIM,+/-,STP,SOG,Hits,FOW,W,SO,GA,S
C-Kopitar,Carter,Zajac,Bailey
W-Perry,Parise,Neal,Oshie,JvR,Clarkson,M.Foligno,Sil vferberg,Chiasson
D-Yandle,J.Johnson,Carlson,Nikitin,Dillon,Barrie
G-Ward,Bernier
Fm-Holland,Shore,Pulkkinen,Teravainen,Jensen,Rundblad,Morrow,Barber io,Krug

10 Tm-8F,4D,2G Weekly
F-Stamkos,MSL,E.Staal,Toews,Seguin,Duchene,E.Kane,St epan,J.Staal,Brown,Silfverberg,Johansen
D-Keith,Seabrook,Voynov,Bogo,Wideman,Fowler
G-Price,Rask,Dubnyk
Fm-Tarasenko,Scheifele,Atkinson,Faksa,Smith,Orlov,Rie lly,Trouba,Markstrom

Boy I think that's a pretty good deal for you. Be interested in much more detail about your team, size of league, number of keepers and so on - I think the guy undersold on his side. Nash and Vanek are both going into better situations this season. Hopefully because you were moving prospects for pro players that you didn't have to drop anyone to make the deal - that could influence the deal if you did.

__________________
Yahoo weekly starts 12 team league, keep 17 plus farm

GS, W, L, SV, GAA, SV%, SO G, A, P, +/-, PIM, SOG, GWG, PPP, SHP, HITS, FOW

3C: H. Sedin,Stepan, Stastny, R. Johansen, Hanzal, Anisimov,
3LW: Burrows, Vanek, Ott, Lupul, Dubinsky
3RW: Doan, Pavelski, Brown, Okposo,
6D: Franson, Doughty, Voynov, Subban, Markov, Gonchar, Karlsson
1Util:
2G: Price, Emery


Farm: (< 100 games): S. Elliott, J. Bernier, Galchenyuk, Etem, Eakin, Atkinson

Its a 16 team dynasty, so full keeper, and I was able to shuffle my lineup so no drops at all were necessary...

Team looks like this now:

Dress 6F, 4D, 1G daily

F - Kopitar, Neal, Nash, Vanek, E.Kane, Zajac, R.O'Reilly, Read, Simmonds
D - Karlsson, Pietrangelo, Bogosian, Larsen, Schenn, Blum, Franson
G - Rask, Backstrom
Fm - Khoklachev, McKegg, Holland, Kassian, Chiasson, Pulkkinen, Savard, Connauton, Rielly, Visentin

Weakens my farm obviously but gives immediate boost to my active roster. Already had Granlund on active, since he there is little or no doubt he will play, and dropped Kassian to the farm to open up a slot (he has to come off the farm after 82GP).

My D is a bit thin, but with Suter gone hopefully Blum can step it up. Franson is obviously a drop candidate if he stays in Europe, but I am holding on to him for now. I'm looking at making a move on D, of course...but I do have 2 solid studs to build around there.

__________________
16 Tm Dynasty,DailyH2H
3C,6W,4D,1G;G,A,PIM,+/-,STP,SOG,Hits,FOW,W,SO,GA,S
C-Kopitar,Carter,Zajac,Bailey
W-Perry,Parise,Neal,Oshie,JvR,Clarkson,M.Foligno,Sil vferberg,Chiasson
D-Yandle,J.Johnson,Carlson,Nikitin,Dillon,Barrie
G-Ward,Bernier
Fm-Holland,Shore,Pulkkinen,Teravainen,Jensen,Rundblad,Morrow,Barber io,Krug

10 Tm-8F,4D,2G Weekly
F-Stamkos,MSL,E.Staal,Toews,Seguin,Duchene,E.Kane,St epan,J.Staal,Brown,Silfverberg,Johansen
D-Keith,Seabrook,Voynov,Bogo,Wideman,Fowler
G-Price,Rask,Dubnyk
Fm-Tarasenko,Scheifele,Atkinson,Faksa,Smith,Orlov,Rie lly,Trouba,Markstrom

Prairie, that is a GREAT deal for you. While I am more open than most to trading proven for prospects, I usually look to deal proven commodities when they are approaching their mid-30s not while still in their 20s.

Add to that, I think Nash is going to approach 75-78 point territory on the Rangers and Vanek is a lock for 65-70 moving forward. These guys have another 5-6 stud years left AT LEAST - that's a long time to benefit on awesome production while restocking your prospect pool.

Granlund and Scheifele are very nice prospects, especially Granlund who could be a star in the NHL. But it will take a while for either of these guys to outperform Rick Nash. I wouldn't have traded them for St. Louis and Iginla but for star players in their 20s, you HAD to make that move. Glad you did.

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6-GM, Wk-H2H, Keep 40
START = 13F, 6D, 2G
F Pts = G (2), A (1), PP/SH (+1), GW (+2)
D Pts = G (3), A (2), PP/SH (+1), GW (+2)
G Pts = W (3), OTL (1), SO (+2), SV (.10)

F: Backstrom, Kopitar, Perry, P.Kane, Spezza, E.Staal, Nash, Vanek, Couture, B.Ryan, Eberle, J.Staal, D.Brown, Lucic, N.Horton, Backes, Tarasenko, van Riemsdyk, T.Ennis, B.Gallagher, Armia, Teravainen
D: Karlsson, P.Subban, Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, Doughty, Yandle, Chara, Kronwall, J.Johnson, Myers, J.Faulk, E.Johnson, A.Larsson, J.Morrow, S.Elliott, M.Rielly, Ceci
G: Price, Rask, M.Smith, Hiller

First, I believe your valuation of Vanek and Nash are accurate - they are 65-75 pt players. I do not think they are going into a necessarily "better" environment, strictly from a fantasy perspective. Yes, their respective teams may win more games but they will both be called upon to play a two-way game with regard to defensive responsibilities. Neither Ruff nor Torts like free-stylin' (just ask Derek Roy). Point being Vanek and Nash are still 65-75pt players, despite the giddy vibes emanating from each team's locker room.

From a value-for-value perspective, the trade works for you. I'm not as sold on it as some of the others but logically I get it.

My hesitation stems from this:

'A+B+C = D+E+F' may be a fair offer on its face but does it help your team achieve the objective. Trades are tactics employed to forward a particular strategy. So while a trade appears of good value, the questions to always ask prior to pulling the trigger is "How does accepting/rejecting this offer advance my overall team strategy (eg, rebuild, win now, win in two yrs etc)

I am rambling, I know, so I'll cut to the chase....

From the outset you stated

So I am wondering how you feel the acquisition of these two fits that paradigm?

Don't misunderstand my angle here...your forwards now appear strong, even more so given it's a 16 team league. But the trade and the above quote seem to contradict one another.

I acquire Nash and Vanek if I think their addition solidifies my forwards giving me the ability to win it all in a two year window. If so, then great move. Cuz Granlund in two years will be awesome.

If not, and you see your team in fourth or fifth place overall then.....meh...it's not a bad trade per se, but why bother?

So again, I am just viewing this through your original goal, quoted above. My two cents....

__________________

Four out of three people have difficulty with fractions

Commish - Twisted Wrister Fantasy Hockey League

12 team, $$$, 24 players, Weekly, H2H, limited keeper (8), multi-cat (G, A, PIMs, Hits, SOG, HT/ W, GA, SV%, SO)

Start: 2C, 2RW, 2LW, 4D, 2G

Yeah I see what you're saying Bomm - after a few discussions I kind of re-evaluated my thinking (as well as taking peoples' advice on the idea of 'long term' planning - I might have been overdoing it there) regarding how far into the future I should really be looking.

I have a fairly young team overall, but I feel they are at the level where they will be producing in their prime for the next 5 years or so (Kopi, Neal, Piets, EK, Rask) and Nash & Vanek will still be putting up good numbers for the next couple/few years. Granlund will be a star but like most are saying I think it won't be right off the bat, and Scheifele will be a bit longer IMO. This move takes me from the bottom half of the league to a contender immediately, and for the next few seasons.

I know the move somewhat contradicts my original post as you are saying Bomm - I guess i should have explained a bit after I made the deal. I This should put me in the top 4-5 teams in the league for the next 3 years at least.

Of course I am taking a chance that Granlund and Scheifele will take a few years to reach their potential - if they are both putting up 80+ by 2013-14 then I got burned It's a gamble - a relatively sound one I think (in that I know exactly what I am getting), but one that could blow up in my face (in that I don't know exactly what I am giving up yet).

Thanks to everyone for their comments so far, I am dealing out rep as I can!

__________________
16 Tm Dynasty,DailyH2H
3C,6W,4D,1G;G,A,PIM,+/-,STP,SOG,Hits,FOW,W,SO,GA,S
C-Kopitar,Carter,Zajac,Bailey
W-Perry,Parise,Neal,Oshie,JvR,Clarkson,M.Foligno,Sil vferberg,Chiasson
D-Yandle,J.Johnson,Carlson,Nikitin,Dillon,Barrie
G-Ward,Bernier
Fm-Holland,Shore,Pulkkinen,Teravainen,Jensen,Rundblad,Morrow,Barber io,Krug

10 Tm-8F,4D,2G Weekly
F-Stamkos,MSL,E.Staal,Toews,Seguin,Duchene,E.Kane,St epan,J.Staal,Brown,Silfverberg,Johansen
D-Keith,Seabrook,Voynov,Bogo,Wideman,Fowler
G-Price,Rask,Dubnyk
Fm-Tarasenko,Scheifele,Atkinson,Faksa,Smith,Orlov,Rie lly,Trouba,Markstrom

I know why you were having seconds thoughts about this trade, I was having the same thoughts. I think this deal is closer than what people think. You have 2 high end prospects vs two 30 goal scorers.
Lets take a closer look at the high end prospects:

Granlund:
Lots of talent, very gifted but playing in Minny. When was the last time anyone in Minny had a really great season? Only once did a plyer have over 80 points in the last 12 years as great as Grandlund is I dont think he will ever get there playing in Minny.

Scheifele:
Lots of talent as well and playing in Winnipeg. I think Scheifele has the potential to be a point per game player but I dont think it will for 3-4 years down the road.

Nash and Vanek:
Fantasy wise they are pretty close with Nash coming out a little bit ahead, but you know what your getting from these guys and there is no reason to why they wont continue what they have been doing and they are relatively young as well.

I know its hard to give up your high end prospects but you have made your team better in the right now. Instead of rebuilding for the future you are now building to win it right now! If you can add another player or two then watch out!

__________________
Derek Reese - Future Hall of Famer
Studs N Duds - Sunday's

12 Team NHL Salary Cap Dynasty
H2H, Salary Cap 82mil, Player actual salaries
G,A,PTS,GWG,PIM,SOG,STP,HT,BL,+/-,W,GAA,SV,SO
Starters: 12 Forwards, 6 Defense, 2 Goalies

F - Stamkos, Perry, E.Staal, Voracek, J.Staal, Simmonds, Ott, Downie, J.Jokinen, Eller, Nielson, Prust
D - Martin, Faulk, Brodie, Ellerby, M.Weber, Stone
G - Bobrovsky, Halak
Bench - Brunner, Brodie, Strachan, Khudobin, Lindback, Neuvirth, Ramo

Prospects - Calvert, Forsberg, Etem, Namestinikov, Kreider, Cundari

Once in a while I like to go back on some past draft classes to see what we are really looking at going forward. History teaches great lessons. One lesson is development time. I am looking at the drafts from 2005 to 2007 and I see so many players (ignoring the obvious busts) that are still trying to find their games.

2005: Pouliot (4), Skille (7), Setoguchi (8)
2006: Brassard (6), Okposo (7), Mueller (8), Frolik (10)
2007: JVR (2), Gagner (6)

I mention these draft classes because they represent 5-7 years of development. So while we drool over some crazy upside and 3YP values, in most cases those numbers will only be realized beyond the scope of what is relevant in fantasy hockey (and even beyond the point where most leagues would fold).

If your team is already full of elite talent, then doing this trade causes diminishing returns and you are probably better off standing pat. But value-wise the known commodities are going to produce more than the youngins during their "development" years.

Granlund and Scheifele could be overnight sensations, but a lot of the guys mentioned above were supposed to be as well.

__________________
UHL Calgary Flames
24-team H2H (roto G, A, GWG, SHP, PPP, PIM, +/, SOG, Hits, Blks, FOW, W, SV, SV%, GAA, SO)

Capped article archive

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Twitter:@DH_EricDaoust.

I wouldn't sweat it at all dude....I like your side better for sure. Maybe Granlund and Scheifele make us look stupid down the road but if I could see the future like that I'd be a very rich guy.

Vanek and Nash's upsides are decent enoigh

Yeah I wouldn't go so far as to say PD lost the trade in any way. Both Vanek and Nash are the types of players a fantasy team needs on their team to solidify depth across a roster. If a fantasy team is on the cusp, these two can shore up some holes more than adequately. If PD thinks his team at such a level, then it's a good deal deal for him.

I just think in a trade such as this the "why" is just as important as the "what".

__________________

Four out of three people have difficulty with fractions

Commish - Twisted Wrister Fantasy Hockey League

12 team, $$$, 24 players, Weekly, H2H, limited keeper (8), multi-cat (G, A, PIMs, Hits, SOG, HT/ W, GA, SV%, SO)

Start: 2C, 2RW, 2LW, 4D, 2G