I think what he was trying to point out is there is no direct correlation saying PIM = PTS + success in the league long term. in fact with most of the fights coming from guys like orr, dorsett, etc this season and minor tripping, hooking, and maybe the odd boarding call going to skill players, then i would argue coaches more then ever want a distinct list of guys to fight on a normal basis, the rest stay out of the box if you can help it. PIM's = no success and only goals scored on your team and or stress on the rest of your team for your mistake (whether big or large you as a player when you step into the box are hurting your team.)
Like mentioned above by others PIM do not mean you are tough. you could crash the boards and never take a penalty if your careful and just use your size without actually nailing the guy with a big hit. from what i have heard grigs can be a genius in the puck protection game when he's dialed in, and when that happens he draws multiple defenders much in the way malkin can do with his puck protection game. that right there coming from scouts as a comparison in my books puts my mind at ease over his physical play. you can always teach him to hit more throughout his career, but he wasnt drafted for sandpaper, and most guys in the first 2 rds arent. tom wilson is an exception not the rule. besides the sabres have ott, kaleta, scott, and girgensons on the way, why would they try to make one of the most skilled players on the team into a PIM machine? so they cant use him on the PP?
the above poster was trying imo to say that PIM can never be a justifiable reason for a hockey player turning out good or bad. everyone has their own style and its seldom the sandpaper approach that leads to goals in the net. you have guys like ott for that. Just because other larger guys take PIM doesn't mean that its what made them successful, if they are using their size truly to their advantage then they wouldnt be taking hooking penalties, tripping, slashing, etc it would always be boarding or roughing calls, and i hardly can think of a skilled player who regularly takes this kind of penalty game in and out who is successful in the NHL due to this reason. Their may be a few im too tired and dont have the time on my hands to go look, and no lucic is not a skilled guy, im talking non-powerforward style players who have skill and size, so iginla is out of the equation as well.
hell most fantasy leagues are phasing out PIM as a cat for hits b.c its an unpredictable stat game to game (smid got like 23 mins in a single game this season) and its really a negative stat like i said before. what coach in his right mind wants malkin to go off the ice for a penalty to put the other team up on the PP every game or every other? none, would they appreciate seeing malkin go out every handful of games and take a good boarding penalty where he just creams the guy? yeah probably, but that just shows a bit of heart, its different for highly skilled guys. they want their skilled guys to DRAW penalties, capitalize on the PP, and be ready to generate the offense. those bottom 6 guys with hands of concrete arent gonna do the scoring, so someone has to right? After all what wins a hockey game again.... oh thats right goals
not taking penalties. If you had focused not on PIM and more on hits as a stat, i think i may support you a bit more, as i noticed skilled bigger bodies like malkin and kopitar tend to hit just under a hit/gm. That is also why hits are a better measure, hell OV hits a ton but doesnt take a ton of PIM, now thats something you would want to see, a good clean hit and then a goal from that guy. Just cause they take PIM does not mean they are good PIM, mostly lazy penalties.
