Draft position

I don't think that's necessarily true... not in the real world nor fantasy hockey (Rick Nash will always be overvalued), but that's a whole other discussion altogether.

Yup, we're saying the same thing. For whatever reason when I was reading your exchange with HF above, it came across different.

There's not much to pick from for disagreements to keep this post moving... so... I choose this one.

LOL (sorry Ma)

I'd disagree with your line of thinking here that a trio of soft-players who are heavy in three categories can compete with across the board players.

In any given week, the Perry/Lucic/Backes trio should win G/PIM/SOG against most competition (not just the soft-trio, but most)... those are fairly consistent categories.

In any given week, the Sedin/Sedin/Thornton trio should win A/PPP against most competition (not just the gritty-trio, but most).

But what category did I leave out... oh, +/-.
Over the course of a season, the best players will have great +/-, but week-to-week can vary with competition.

So now you are looking at a trio that only grabs 2/6 categories with consistency. Ugh, not sure what my comfort level is in those guys.

My personal strategy in both H2H & Roto is to (if anything) punt assists.
I'm not passing on Henrik Sedin if he's there in the 3rd round because he's (normally) great in 3/6... but I AM passing on Brian Campbell, who at best, is 2/6.

Also - across the board players are a little easier to replace.
If you have a Henrik Sedin go down, how easy is it to replace his Assists & PPP & +/- with a waiver wire player? I'd say, not too easy.
If somebody loses a Perry/Backes/Lucic, how easy is it to replace them? Not easy either... but easi-er, I'd say. PIM & SOG are almost always there on the waiver wire. And often goals can be found from a player promoted to a line with a great passer.

Anyways - I think across the board-value is important in H2H... assuming you are going to clean 3/6 categories with a soft trio is a big mistake, IMO.
If you only win 2/6 some weeks (due to +/- randomness), you are now below 50%... and perhaps out of playoff contention.

The gritty team is going to accidentally steal +/- some weeks... which will put them a little over 50%.

That's my argument (sheerly to keep the thread rolling).

ps. When do we get to talk more about Shoeless' Ott reach in the Rocky Horror Roto Show? We need to get him fired up & back in this thread again!

Really? So no transactions are possible once the draft is over? Or we should hold a player's value consistent with the round they were drafted in, even though that was an event in the past? Come now...

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Come on now... you know I was referring to a player's initial valuation at draft time

Although there is a lot of truth to the notion that many owners actually do hold a player's value consistent with where they originally drafted them (similar to how people do not want to sell stocks at a lower price than they acquired them). It is an emotional mechanism... to value them lower than they they were drafted would be to admit they made a mistake, and given the egos that we tend to carry, most of us are not willing to admit that.

Yeah, yeah I know you were, but I was trying to point out how nuts that is. Fantasy hockey is considerably longer than a draft, just like value of a business/stock/commodity isn't tied to the initial acquisition.

You're totally right about ownership bias though... but that's another thread entirely!

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There's no universal currency in fantasy hockey. A player worth $20 to me might be worth $5 to most other teams. Usually the difference isn't that drastic in roto, but can be in H2H. When you run into diminishing returns and other types of SGP (standings gained points) issues, player values are usually different than their intrinsic values. I'd say that the best you could get as far as measuring currency would be to associate a dollar value with players' intrinsic value. This is something I always do.

In H2H it's important to determine the value of all players to your team, and then find a rough estimation of the value to the average team, and/or a team that is focused on certain categories such as goals/assists. I do this in my draft spreadsheets/league spreadsheets by having all sorts of columns for perceived value, actual value, ratios of them all, etc. You pretty much need a decoder ring to be able to understand the damn spreadsheet with all the acronymed column headings, haha. But it enables you to locate the pockets of value not only in the draft, but in trades during the season.

But you also can't base it on trade value as well, as trades "rarely" happens in higher quality fantasy leagues. I mean in the Dobber Experts league there were 11 trades during the entire season... and I was responsible for 6 of them... So most people I would argue draft their players to keep for an entire season as opposed for trade value.

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Dobber Expert Pool Champion 2011-12

I can't argue with the +/- category as it is one of the most random stats in fantasy hockey, but I could argue the same thing with goals as well...

Between Side A and Side B there was a difference of 25 goals, so let's say over the course of a full fantasy season, that would be about 25 weeks, if you average it out 25 goals over 25 weeks, it might work out to be an extra goal a week advantage for "across the board" over "softies"... So I wouldn't trust that "every given weak they would win the G category", I'd give you PIM and SOG (since they have such a massive lead), but not G... With that said you could counter argue that it's the same thing with PPP...

So I guess it comes down to personal preference... For me I'd still argue that there isn't a real statistical advantage in making an emphasis in owning "across the board" guys over "softies" in standard leagues (or if there is on it's only negligible)... Not enough to buy into it and believe that it's an "surefire" winning strategy.

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Dobber Expert Pool Champion 2011-12

Hey I'm right 100% of the time that I'm not wrong...

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Dobber Expert Pool Champion 2011-12

Hit it right on the button! It's about making the "right"/best decision for your team. With H2H there's much more leeway for "punting" than there is for Roto... You can get away with punting 49.9999999% of the league stats and still win, no chance for that in Roto.

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Dobber Expert Pool Champion 2011-12