Could I land a big four (Ovi)? - Page 3 - Fantasy Sports Forums

kevinsrangers · #21 12-07-2012, 01:10 PM

i really dont see an ovi owner making this deal.

gfunkb7 · #22 12-07-2012, 01:12 PM

Thank you for your inputs.

the_walrus · #23 12-07-2012, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gfunkb7

I strongly disagree on a few things:
1) Justifying an offer doesn't mean the offer is a bad one in the first place. If you place higher value of a player only because of his name, my JOB, in order to the trade done, is to extract the plus-value on name and generate the real value. If the other GM accepts right off the bat, that means my offer would have been too low. It's the basics of negotiations - each party trying to close the gap. If the majority of you would say it's not even close, then yes, I shall recraft the trade. It seems like this trade has place to interpretation, though.

2) When you look at the facts, his team is not in good posture. Therefore, I put myself in the other GM's shoes and ask myself:"is it worth giving up Ovechkin, lose couple of 1st rounders but improving two other keepers (while also receiving D. Sedin) in exchange of not having to go under complete rebuild and have my chances of competing sooner than 3 years from now and perhaps making playoffs as soon as this year?"

3) You're making it seem like I'm pointing a gun to his head to accept the deal. I have yet to discuss this deal with him, even though I sent the offer. My perception of his team is that he should rebuild but opted to have a compete-now strategy. I've never insinuated that he should run his team whatever way. I'm simply pondering on what type of offer to send considering what his plans seems to be, for him.

Statistically speaking, I doubt Ovechkin is worth my top three (pick three out of five). You wanna place value on a name, like most people would do? Fine, but I'm crunching numbers and it's not worth it.

[Facepalm]
Was just trying give you some advice, since I've dealt extensively with someone in my league who thinks the way you do. All I can tell you is that it's excruciating when they want somebody and constantly try to push they offer through, offering justification after justification. Careful, youre treading dangerously close to being one of those guys who constantly post about offering spare parts for elite players because they 'might outproduce them'

The only questions you ever need to consider in a trade are;
-what does he want
-is it worth it

My guess is that he wants alot, and that it probably won't be worth it. So yes, you are providing value, but it probably won't get the job done. But thats the price you pay going after a top 4 player.

I look forward to hearing how this turns out.

gfunkb7 · #24 12-07-2012, 01:45 PM

So to sum it up,
Ovechkin can be regarded as an untouchable (unless my willingness to give up too many assets for acquiring the name)
My trade doesn't provide enough value for him.
I have wrongfully assumed his needs.

I was just looking at
1) why he would accept or decline the trade
2) what it would take to conclude a trade

In order to conclude it, because it's Ovechkin, I would need to include my shirt and socks, therefore not worth it.

gfunkb7 · #25 12-07-2012, 01:47 PM

And that's another thing, I cannot trade for ish because using the HPG tool, I tend to draft the under-the-radar players with huge all around numbers instead of hot shots like 75% of my league would be doing.

That's why it seems like I have to justify a trade.

horrorfan · #26 12-07-2012, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gfunkb7

Shoeless:
C: RIBS, Anisimov, Nielsen, HENRIQUE,
W: OVIE, HEATLEY, COLE, POMINVILLE, Hornqvist, Seto, Foligno, Gionta
D: BURNS, LARSSON, Visnovsky, Bergeron,
G: HALAK, BACKSTROM, Vokoun
*Note: Capitals = Keepers (!) ... have you raised any eyebrows yet?

Horrorfan: I understand your point and I've seen this point come around often in the forums. However, this manager is semi-dedicated to his team so I'm looking to provide him with tools that will allow him to improve his team immediately and help him get a top 8 (playoff spot). So yeah, Ovie is quite good, but his 3 others are garbage. It really depends where he's mind's at because frankly, are you completely on rebuild mode when you keep cole or even ribs for that matter?

Yeah that's exactly it - you don't know where his mind is at and how he values his squad/players. As you've made the offer, you'll hopefully get feedback that will answer those questions. Be sure to update this thread once you get a response.

the_walrus · #27 12-07-2012, 03:04 PM

You sound so much like the GM in my league I was referring to, its scary (well, more funny than scary).

Don't ask for advice if you aren't happy when people disagree with you.

The point is that you're missing and what everybody is trying to explain to you is that no matter how good an offer you make, no matter how lop-sided it is in their favor, they might still be inclined to decline it.

If you do well with sleepers and under-the-radar players, than more power to you. But those aren't usually the guys that most GMs want. Yes, Jason Pominville outscored Eriksson, E. Stall, Parise, D. Sedin, Iginla, P. Kane, AND Ovechkin last year; that doesn't mean you could ever get any of those players for him. He's got production value, but no name value. And unfortunately when trading, name value is worth more than production value.

Nobody's trying to knock on you though. It's fustrating trading for elite talent because of the unreasonable price tag. But such is the market. Hopefully for your sake, the GM in your league with Ovie is easier to deal with than we are.

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