It's a pretty bad comparison, dyz... to just look at 7 games for this season when there is a 30-game sample from last season in the AHL & NHL for each player.

Heck, Eric Staal started last season with 5pts in his first 16games... and it included a 7 game pointless streak. So?

re: Rundblad. I've discussed his SEL numbers previously. The guy put up nice numbers in a league where Byron Ritchie was the 5th highest scorer. Top Swedish talent is in the NHL these days. Back in the 80s & 90s, I would've given more cred to stats put up in the SEL and THAT is why the Lidstroms and Zetterbergs translated so well over to the NHL - because when THEY played in the SEL, it was more competitive and more talent was still there.

You've also got last year's NHL comparison:

Elliott,S.: 39gp, 4G, 9A, 13pts, +2, 84 SOG.
Rundblad: 30gp, 1G, 7A, 8pts, -12, 34 SOG.

The two guys played almost equivalent games last year in equivalent leagues and Elliott was clearly the better player (statistically).
From the NHL games I've watched, Elliott is the better player (skill-wise).


I really think pointing to this year's 7 game AHL sample is in pretty poor judgment.
(You better then that man!)

I think you're missing a major point here, Pengwino.

We're talking about a guy who's spent his entire life playing on NHL-ice vs. a player who was playing on NHL-ice for the first time in his life last season. For that reason I don't really see why last years totals should be considered much more seriously than this years short samples. Both are flawed comparisons.

Elliott put up 81 points in 71 games as a 20 year old in the WHL. Let's compare that to another notable Avs prospect, Tyson Barrie.

As a 19 year old, he put up 58 points in 54 games (2 years after draft). As an 18 year old he put up 72 points in 63 games (post-draft year). And as a 17 year old draft eligible player he put up 52 points in 68 games (Draft year).

So.. draft year: 0.76 ppg
Post-draft: 1.14 ppg
2 years: 1.07 ppg

Elliott draft year: 0.77 ppg
Post-draft: 0.90 ppg
2 years: 1.14 ppg

What's the point? Barrie averaged more points, at a younger age (July vs. January birthday) over a 3-year span in the WHL than Elliott.

Yet for some reason, Elliott is considered a future 50+ point d-man while Barrie is projected as maybe a steady 40 point guy?

This may be getting off track... I'm just saying based on WHL stats, and given Elliott's age while producing them, it's not all that impressive.

Just for further comparison... let's look at Jon Blum.

Draft year: 0.71 ppg
Post-draft: 1 ppg
2 years: 1.29 ppg
First year AHL: 0.5 ppg

Elliotts first year AHL (much smaller sample size): 0.5 ppg and 0.33 ppg in the NHL.

Blum went on to 0.63 ppg in the AHL and 0.35 ppg in the NHL the following season.

So... point is I've outlined two WHL d-men with similiar (although in both cases, their production was better than Elliott in the WHL) who went on to post better numbers in the AHL than Elliott as well (significantly better actually IMO).

Toss Barrie or Blum's name into this vs. Rundblad thread and I feel like the voting would be different. Elliott gets a lot of hype.

Bump.

I'd like to see if 20 games in, people still feel the same about comparing those two.

(I personnally have Elliott in my team and am somewhat worried.)

__________________
Keeper's Pool. Point only. Salary Cap 75M$ (yearly salary, not cap hit)
Only the best 9F, 3D, 1G of every teams counts in the standing.

Players list here (I am the St. Louis Blues):
http://keeper.forumactif.org/t13-joueurs-equipes

Some good arguments here...

My belief is Rundblad has the higher ceiling between the two, but hes boom/bust. Elliot on the other hand, pretty good offensive ceiling however not as high as Rundblad's. Elliot is the more rounded defensively between the two(although he needs work there too, just not as much as Rundblad).

Elliot is the safer choice IMO.

__________________
Stamkos was asked today in Tampa how he can top last season:
"Well, get into the playoffs. That's the big key and that's our goal here."

Follow me on Twitter @thehockeyhitman

20 AHL games in... I don't know.
I haven't seen a full AHL game this year.

Rundblad appears to be doing OK.
Elliott appears to be doing shit.
What's the deal? I don't know.

I'm not putting too much stock into anybody's AHL or KHL stats this year.
(Granted, I do like that the OKC kids are gelling... that's important. But I'm not investing too much in a guy just because he might be top 5 in the KHL or AHL in scoring.)


Here's another sports example:
*Five years ago, my wife & I were watching the Georgia Bulldogs... we watch every game. I told my wife that Matthew Stafford would be the #1 overall pick in the draft because he had a great NFL game. His interceptions were due to his receivers not being able to catch balls he throws with pin-point zip. My friends said I was crazy... but Stafford went #1. If his receivers can catch his balls, his stats look great. If they can't catch them, his stats aren't great.


Because I haven't seen Elliott play in the AHL, I can't comment on why his stats suggest he is slumping.
I have liked everything I've seen from him in NHL games.

Some players excel with good surrounding talent.
Some players excel if the surrounding competition is weak.
These are two very important and very different conditions.

This is why some 50pt players in the minors can still be 50pt players in the NHL.
And it is also why some 90pt players in the minors never cut it in the NHL.

The jump is different depending on what conditions are needed for a player to excel.

So... I'm going to speculate here... but I'd guess that Elliott isn't playing well because he's surrounded by a bunch of chumps at Lake Erie.
Just my guess.
From what I've seen, he's too good to have numbers like these.
Again - just my speculation.

I wouldn't peg Elliott down at all just because of his AHL stats.

I've got to unload one of these guys by Thursday and I've gone 70/30 to keep Elliot to 50/50 back to 60/40 to keep Elliott. I'm ready to flip a coin. Anyone else on my D that you'd part with before either of these two?

__________________
F-Datsyuk,C.Giroux,Kopitar,Read,Duchene,Z. Kassian,Stamkos,Voracek,Hall,Seguin,Eberle,Couture ,Turris,Ladd,vanReimsdyk,Greening,Vrbata,Burrows,K unitz,Hagelin,Doan

D-Carlson,Edler,Hedman,Karlsson,
Pietrangelo,Shattenkirk,A.Larsson,J.Schultz,Faulk, Souray

G-Bernier,Quick,Markstrom,
Neuvirth,Rask,Bachman,Lindback

F-G,A=1pt (14 count)
D-G,A=1pt,+- (8 count)
G-Win=3pts,T=1,SO=2,G,A=1 (3 count)

12 Team Dynasty

I'd be trying to trade one for a fw prospect so that you don't have this tough decision to make. Your d-core is insane!

__________________
10tm Dynasty Lg - $70M CAP
G A PTS +/- PIM PPP SOG W GAA SV% SO

C: J. Carter, H Sedin, E. Staal
RW: P. Kane, Stewart
LW: Semin, Couture
D: Pietrangelo, Hamhuis, Subban, Carlson
G: Lundqvist, Price
UTIL: Plekanec, Ennis, Perron, D. Brown


Farm
D: B. Smith, Morrow
F: Brassard, Williams, Niederreiter, Little, Okposo, Whitney, Nyquist, Kesler
G: S. Mason, Ward

Prospect:
F - Z. Kassian, Spooner, Kuznetsov, Tatar, Teravainen, Stone, Connolly
D - Matt Dumba

I'd be trying to trade one for a fw prospect so that you don't have this tough decision to make. Your d-core is insane!

__________________
10tm Dynasty Lg - $70M CAP
G A PTS +/- PIM PPP SOG W GAA SV% SO

C: J. Carter, H Sedin, E. Staal
RW: P. Kane, Stewart
LW: Semin, Couture
D: Pietrangelo, Hamhuis, Subban, Carlson
G: Lundqvist, Price
UTIL: Plekanec, Ennis, Perron, D. Brown


Farm
D: B. Smith, Morrow
F: Brassard, Williams, Niederreiter, Little, Okposo, Whitney, Nyquist, Kesler
G: S. Mason, Ward

Prospect:
F - Z. Kassian, Spooner, Kuznetsov, Tatar, Teravainen, Stone, Connolly
D - Matt Dumba

It was good to see Rundblad making the team out of camp. Didn't have the best start though as he was -2 last night.

Still at this point Rundblad should be ranked over Elliott IMO.

__________________
UHL Pittsburgh Penguins

24 Team Fantrax Salary Cap H2H Dynasty League Daily
G, A, +/-, PIM, PPP, SHP, GWG, SOG, Hits, Blks, FOW
W, GAA, SV, SV%, SO
23 Man Roster - 3C, 3LW, 3RW, 3F, 6D, 1G, 4BN, 4IR
27 Man Minor Team

C- Tavares, Stepan, Hodgson, Shaw, Bjugstad
LW- Ryan, Perron, Downie, Killorn, Rinaldo
RW- Wheeler, Simmonds, Coyle, Frattin, Boyes
D- Pietrangelo, JJ, Bogosian, EJ, Josi, Cowen, Muzzin
G- Lehtonen

F: Granlund, Silfverberg, Jensen, Dalpe, Bowman, Knight, Fasth, JAM
D: Beaulieu, Koekkoek, Gelinas, Pysyk, McCabe, Irwin
G: Nilsson, Nilstorp, Ramo, Berra, Brossoit, Gibson