Great quote today in the comments from DobberHockey member sanstanya, on the Garrison contract:

 

"In fact, the value of full-blown Edler vs tentative, confused, why-is-Bieksa-my partner-and-what-is-he-doing-way-over-there Edler might be the ultimate measure of the contract at the end of the day."

 

Scenario. You own Alex Ovechkin in your pool.

 

Your league counts the usual stuff, as well as hits. How do you value Ovechkin? Under Dale Hunter, he was neutered and put in a secondary role. Under Adam Oates, you can bet the Capitals are going to give him every opportunity to score 60+ again.

 

Some have speculated that he will pair with Mike Ribeiro on an offensive unit, and a two-way line featuring Laich and Backstrom will play behind them. The idea is just that, an idea, but it does make a lot of sense.

 

All that being said, let’s say you own Ovechkin and you are receiving offers for him. Assuming you don’t need any position in particular (I know, not incredibly realistic)… would you accept any of these trades?

 

1) Eric Staal + Justin Faulk


2) Roberto Luongo + Joffrey Lupul


3) Claude Giroux


4) Daniel Sedin


5) Taylor Hall and Justin Schultz

 

I am curious to see how Ovechkin is valued. Weigh in with your thoughts below.

 

My fantasy analysis on the Parise/Suter signings:

 

Congratulations to the Wild and their fans – yesterday was arguably the most exciting in club history. Isn’t every day you can add a franchise forward and elite defenseman without giving up anything in return.

Wanted to thank Michael Russo, the beat writer who covers the Wild. He’s one of the best in the biz and did a terrific job from start to finish with this one.

 

Minnesota made a crafty move the day before, signing two-way center Jake Dowell from Dallas. Dowell is a decent player, but he is also a former teammate of Ryan Suter at Wisconsin, and one of his best friends, too.

 

Even as a Canuck fan, I am a huge fan of these signings. More competition in the Northwest, and it shows that these guys aren’t all about money (I know, a weird thing to say after they will each make almost $100 million each, but both players took a lot of time to pick the right fit). Along with Justin Schultz, who chose the Oilers for hockey reasons, it is nice to see players pursuing other things in free agency beyond the dollar signs.

 

There are lots of line combination options, and here is my best guess as of now:

 

Parise-Koivu-Heatley

Bouchard-Granlund-Setoguchi

Cullen-Brodziak-Clutterbuck

Powe/Dowell – Konopka – Mitchell

Kassian

 

Suter-Gilbert

Spurgeon-Stoner

Scandella-Brodin

Prosser/Falk

 

Backstrom

Harding

 

The Wild could use another defenseman, but that sure looks like a playoff club to me. And on the way in a few years – Johan Larsson, Charlie Coyle, Zach Phillips, Jason Zucker, and more.

 

What does this mean for Shea Weber? If he doesn’t want to sign a long-term deal with the Predators, I think the club has to entertain the idea of trading him this summer.

 

There would be no shortage of teams interested, and the cost would obviously be significant. Nashville went all in this year, and came up short. They have some great young defensemen, but Pekka Rinne and company will be in tough to repeat their successes next year.

 

If I am Edmonton, I call up David Poile and offer Jordan Eberle for Shea Weber ASAP. I love Eberle, but Weber would give the Oilers a franchise defenseman to go along with their potential three/four franchise forwards.

 

What does this mean for the teams in pursuit of the two players?

 

For Pittsburgh, who were really hot after Parise, I don’t think this forces them into anything. They have a lot of cap space and can sit back a bit and see where the cards fall. Or they could take a chance on Alex Semin on a one year deal and pair him with Crosby. Could score 50 there.

 

For Detroit, they need to add a defenseman. Does Jay Bouwmeester enter in to the equation? Right now the Wings have a top four of Kronwall, White, Ericsson, and Quincey. Smith and Kindl are nice young players, but I don’t think the Wings want to rely on either of them to play a lot of minutes just yet.

 

For New Jersey, this likely means that Ilya Kovalchuk is moving back to the left wing. I don’t see it affecting his fantasy value much, but this does hurt most of New Jersey’s other players.

For Nashville, this depends on what they do with Weber. Right now, there is no one to replace Suter, but that could change with a trade or signing (the team is reportedly interested in Matt Carle, who is a poor man’s Suter).

 

I am a huge Roman Josi fan, but he’s not ready for top pairing minutes. Mattias Ekholm is coming back over from Sweden. They probably won’t be able to replace Suter, but they are better off than most other teams would be given their depth on defense.

 

My thoughts on Josi from 2011:

 

10. Roman Josi – Nashville Predators

 

Unlike Blum and Ellis, Josi has earned his reputation as a top offensive prospect the hard way. He isn’t Canadian (Swiss), and he wasn’t a high draft pick (38th overall in 2008). This season has been his first in North America, and the adjustment has been near-seamless. Through 54 games with the Admirals, Josi has six goals and 30 points. The first thing you notice about Josi when watching him play is his crisp accurate passes, and his heady decision-making.


Like Blum, I hesitated to put Josi on this list because of Nashville’s embarrassment of riches on defense. However, like Blum, I believe that skill and hockey sense prevail in the end (ether through finding ice time or the forcing of a trade). He plays with a ton of confidence and loves rushing the puck. He recently had a 13-game point streak in the AHL – an incredibly impressive feat for any defenseman, let alone a rookie.

Player Comparison: Kimmo Timonen


Some other thoughts from the past few days:

 

I could see Dallas splitting up their scoring into an offensive unit and more of a two-way unit, since they don’t really have a checking line right now.

 

Offensive unit:

 

Whitney-Benn-Jagr

Defensive unit:

Eriksson-Roy-Ryder

 

Cody Eakin will likely center the third line, but he isn’t ready to be an NHL checker. Verne Fiddler is a solid depth forward, but he isn’t great defensively. More of a depth two-way option.

 

The Stars could also balance their two lines and put Jagr with Eriksson and Benn, freeing up Whitney to play with Roy and Ryder.

 

Roy hasn’t been the same player since tearing his quad in 2011. He has a lot to play for now – he has contended with trade rumors for the past few years, and is now playing for a new contract in a brand new environment. Skill has never been the question with him, but effort and consistency both have.

 

The Coyotes have replaced Ray Whitney with Steve Sullivan. Sullivan grew tired of waiting for the Penguins and decided to join the Desert Dogs. I’ll likely slot in to the top six/nine somewhere (Phoenix has so many similar players it is hard to see who is line one, two, or three at the moment).

 

There are a ton of teams after Shane Doan, and for good reason. He’s a strong two-way player and a terrific leader, and he is heavily motivated to win after getting so close this past postseason in Phoenix. The Rangers, Flyers, and Canucks would all love to add Doan. Doan’s heart and family is on Phoenix, but his future there depends on their murky ownership issues.

 

Where does Rick Nash go? I think Carolina would be a great fit for him, not only because he would get to play with Jordan and Eric Staal on a potentially dominant top unit. The ‘Canes would also have the assets to give Columbus what they want in return. I’d imagine a package featuring Ryan Murphy, Zac Dalpe, and another forward would get Columbus on the phone.

 

Florida prospect Nick Bjugstad is going to decide soon whether he turns pro or spends one more year in the NCAA. I think another year would serve him well – he went from a ‘very good’ prospect to a ‘stud’ prospect in 2011-12 at Minnesota, and one more year of development couldn’t hurt him. The Panthers don’t really need to rush him, either.

 

Started work on the DobberHockey 2012-13 Fantasy Guide – this year I am going to implement a brand new section that will incorporate advanced statistics to fantasy analysis. I have had a ton of fun brainstorming ideas and I know you guys are going to eat this stuff up. Really useful, relevant, and not being done anywhere else.

 

The Canucks apparently offered Olli Jokinen a one-year contract. I wonder what that says about Ryan Kesler’s injury recovery? As it stands right now, Kesler will be out until November. Potential lines:

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows

 

Booth-Schroeder-Raymond

Higgins-Lapierre-Hansen

Weise-Malhotra-Kassian

 

Lots can change (and lots will), but Vancouver would love to add a center. I’m surprised by the Jokinen offer, though. When Kesler comes back, where does Jokinen slot in? L3, I guess, and then Lapierre would slide to wing. Lapierre has been very good with the Canucks and I think he deserves a shot to center L3 – he did a great job of it during their Cup run, going up against the likes of Joe Pavelski and coming out ahead.

 

Illegal Curve takes a look at some potential line combos in Winnipeg. Points for thinking outside-the-box:

 

Ladd-Jokinen-Machacek

Kane-Little-Wheeler

Antropov-Burmistrov-Ponikarovsky

Cormier-Slater-Thorburn

 

Machacek was a guy I saw a lot of in the WHL. Solid two-way player with no stand out qualities. Great complimentary winger to better linemates. I like the look of that third line, as well. A lot of size on the wing for the talented Burmistrov to play with.

 

How much does shot quality matter? Not a whole lot. If you read one thing today (after the ramblings, that is), read this link.

 

“I don't think anyone believes that there is no such thing as shot quality, that all shots are equal. The argument is actually that most shot quality effects are smaller than people think, and that over the sample sizes we normally work with, differences in shot quality tend to be dominated more by noise than talent. In this article, I'll walk through some examples and try to emphasize the subtle difference between saying shot quality is meaningless and saying it is often negligible.”

 

Ryan Johansen has put on 15 pounds this summer – great news as he was pushed around a bit as a rookie. He’s just under 220 pounds. Johansen is one of the top prospects in hockey and will be a guy the Jackets build around once Rick Nash is traded.

 

Jason Garrison wasn’t signed for his 16 goals, a point I have tried to get across to a few people (cough, Dobber) on here. Advanced stats paint a picture of one of the best defensive defensemen in the game.

‘Offensively, Garrison should be expected to score upwards of five goals. I doubt that the Canucks front office or coaching staff expects him to repeat the 16 he scored last season, but that wasn’t the reason he was signed. His big shot from the point does help to alleviate the team’s loss of Sami Salo, but there was more that went into this signing than offence.



For the two full seasons that Garrison has been in the NHL, he’s been quietly one of its best defensive defencemen. The Canucks are hoping this trend continues.’


Scary moment a few days ago, as Phoenix player Brett MacLean suffered a cardiac emergency while playing hockey in Owen Sound. MacLean was once a highly touted prospect, but has struggled a bit at the NHL level. Sending my best wishes to him and hoping for a speedy recovery. Very scary to see this stuff happen to anyone, especially a healthy athlete in his 20s.

 

The Jets have signed Al Montoya to back up Ondrej Pavelec. Montoya struggled after returning from a concussion last season. He didn’t receive much support on Long Island, though.

 

Some quotes from Parise and Suter to wrap the ramblings up.

 

Parise:

 

“Ryan and I had talked throughout the year, at the time you always say to each other, ‘Wouldn’t it be great to have a chance play with each other on the same team?’ Was it realistic at the time? I don’t know. Different teams have to have the availability. I know how great Ryan is ... to have an opportunity to play with a guy of that caliber is a great opportunity. We kept in touch throughout the whole process. You have to decide what is best for you.

 

How to say his last name: “I pronounce it “Par-e-zee.”

 

Suter:

 

“When the season ends and you start thinking what’s next, big thing is my family, obviously. They were an option right away, Minnesota, and I always thought about Minnesota, it just never seemed realistic, but for me, right after the season, you think about places you could potentially go to, and the situation that is best for you and your family."


Suter showing off his shot:


 

Don't forget - this guy is still available:

 


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Comments (29)add comment

the_walrus said:

the_walrus
Ovechkin trades You have got to be sh*tting me. I look at those offers and I look at the trades completed for ovie in the forums and it blows my mind. The Ovechkin owner in my keeper league would consider all of these as 'interesting starts' but nothing substantial.

Last season, while he was neck and neck for the championship (which hed won the previous two seasons) and in need of both defense and goaltending I made the two following offers:
-Lundqvist for Ovechkin
-Getzlaf/Doughty/Schneider/Smith (Brendan)/8th overall pick

He barely considered either....seriously, I don't understand how some of the posters in the forums are requesting advice on if they're giving up too much for Ovie because they're losing Sam Gagner and Brent Burns. I wish I had that problem...
July 05, 2012
Votes: +0

bradp36 said:

bradp36
Ovechkin As an Ovechkin owner, I would trade him for Giroux and probably Hall and Schultz. Although injuries will always be a concern with Hall.
July 05, 2012
Votes: +0

doulos said:

doulos
Garrison and Ballard A couple seasons ago Ballard was trade to the Canucks and people were saying he'd be a 45 point defenseman and that Bieksa was gone. And now look.

Gillis is smart and so there are reasons to believe that they did their due diligence here. Also, the underlying stats and metrics on Garrison are quite good, so that's a positive.

I think that a tempered wait and see with him is likely the best response since it could go either way. He's certainly not on my draft list anywhere though.
July 05, 2012
Votes: +0

buck0198 said:

buck0198
Ovie Lack of work ethic...defensemen have figured him out. I assume u mean Oates is gonna let him cherry pick again?...

I take Giroux...thats it.
July 05, 2012
Votes: +0

JHM said:

JHM
Ovy Trades First thing. Remember Ovy is young. He's in the early part of PRIME. Different leagues, create different values for Ovy. Salary, positional status, extended stats (which ones), goal heavy leagues... I'll yack with points only, and making him a LW.

1) Eric Staal + Justin Faulk
No - Very far apart. LW means Ovy is equal to Staal last season. Then the upside thoughts. Faulk is a puppy with a short interesting track record. He'll have ups & downs.

2) Roberto Luongo + Joffrey Lupul
Hmmm. No. Too much risk. Luongo is enough older that age could become a factor. Band Aid Boy Lupul has shown one interesting splash. Not enough security to get me going.

3) Claude Giroux
Maybe. For the "Nervous Nelly" pull the trigger on this, if Giroux is a winger. Remember a year from today, when Giroux is a centre and Ovy has another 90 pointer under his belt, that you gave away your Ovy because you were too nervous.

4) Daniel Sedin
No. Age factor is a discussion now. Sedin must CRUSH Ovy several times, to make it EVEN.

5) Taylor Hall and Justin Schultz
No. Ovy is young. Taylor has hasn't proven he can do it yet (I'd like to get my fingers on him though) and Justin Schultz hasn't played a game in the NHL. Counting on Schultz for more than 30, as a rookie, is nonsense. Cam Fowler, MDZ and what other rookie D-men have broken the 50 point barrier in the past five years. Schultz is a bit older (21). The only other comparable coming from the NCAA in recent years is Smith. They're good kids. They both could become awesome. One could become awesome. They both could become steadies. In exchange for a proven Super Star in the early part of his prime... not a chance.

Go get Ovy today. Now's the time.
July 05, 2012
Votes: +0

Johner said:

Johner
Eberle for Weber I like the idea of trading Eberle for Weber only if the Oil can speak to him first and know he will sign long term.
Trade Eberle for Weber then build a package with parts such as Gagner,Hemsky,MPS, 2013 1st pick to land bobby Ryan
July 05, 2012
Votes: +0

Kenzan Kanzaki said:

Kenzan Kanzaki
Ovi Trade I would take Luo and Lupul for Ovechkin.

It seems to me that Luongo is going to move out of Vancouver. When he does, he will settle in with a team and system that will trust and support him - both on and off of the ice. At the end of last season, it did not look like the Canucks did either of these things ... I do not foresee Luongo staying in that system any longer, even to serve in a "mentor" role for any future prospects. Schneider has proven that he can stand on his own without that kind of support from a veteran at this point and can be trusted with the No.1 job without Luongo. Granted, this deal would be a lot easier to take after Luo moves rather than go balls-to-the-walls with him.

As for Lupul, maybe it's just me, but I enjoy watching him play. I have him in one of my leagues, and it was great to see him explode offensively before he got injured. Before this season, I thought of him as a rather quiet player and solid all-around ... I picked him up because he contributed to all stats even though he is a Band-Aid Boy. With the way he played this season, I'm keeping him for next and would take him in this trade for Ovi.
July 05, 2012
Votes: +0

stickboyy said:

stickboyy
... I have traded AO almost a year ago in a sim league for:
Bryan Little, Travis Zajac, Keith Yandle and Brendan Smith + 1st and a 2nd in 2013 and a 4th in 2012
I got a lot of critics but id do it again!
July 05, 2012
Votes: +0

bitterwingsfan said:

bitterwingsfan
Ovi I'll add this to the "trade Ovechkin" topic being that I actually did move him during the stretch run in my partial keeper H2H league (16 players, keep 8, no more than 2 per position) this season... standard Yahoo scoring with Hits over PIM.

Backstory: I won the league the year prior and was looking to be the first to repeat back to back as champion. I had a playoff caliber team but it wasn't nearly as strong as the year prior for a number of reasons. Ovechkin's scoring numbers being what they were, I wasn't snagging points stats as much as I had the year before (he was still point a game then, even if it was a down year at the time). Hits had been added for the first time in the '10 season and it was one of my biggest advantages. Other managers took notice and beefed up this past season so that was another area I lost ground on. Finally, goaltending, which was a strength in '10, turned to an achilles heel in '11. The only shot I really had to repeat was to make some moves to try to strengthen up for the playoffs. One area I needed help in, besides net, was RW.

The Trade: Manager already out of playoff contention and looking to improve for next season shot me an offer with the following note: "For the playoff push." The deal was Kovalchuk and Kessel for Ovechkin.

Notes: This was before Carlyle became the Leafs coach and obviously before Hunter quit coaching in the NHL (who does that btw?). Should definitely had known the Caps coaching situation was only temporary. On paper, this move should have improved all my present scoring stats but in reality I'm not sure it helped that much. I was bounced in the first round despite the trade. In retrospect, I believe I should have held off, faced the facts that I didn't have a winning team this year, and looked to improve for this fall. I don't think this trade kills me but if I had to do it again, hindsight being 20/20, not sure that I would. Potential bragging rights and ego clouded my judgement a bit.

Of the trades mentioned in the ramblings, I'd consider Giroux for Ovechkin but Claude is probably a pure center for position eligibility going forward. In that case, probably best to stay with the winger.
July 05, 2012
Votes: +0

Southpaw20 said:

Southpaw20
Ovi I own Ovi in my main league (standard cats + hits, no salary cap) and I would not consider any of the above offers. Leafs2014 comment was probably the closest and I would have to really think about it. In my league he is typically the top player by a fair margin (excluding the recent blip). Really hoping for a bounce back with Oates behind the bench.
July 05, 2012
Votes: +0

Isle B. said:

Isle B.
Hypothetical Ovechkin Trades 1) No. Not in a league that counts +/- anyway as Staal always seems to be a -10 whether the Canes win the cup or lose the lottery.

2) No. Not with Luongo in limbo. Also, Lupul plays about 50-65 games a season, whereas Ovechkin plays 75-82.

3) Yes. Giroux is as good as anyone in the league right now other than a healthy Crosby

4) Yes. Ovechkin may have the upside over D Sedin, but he also has more downside.

5) No. Taylor Hall has yet to get through a season or produce at an All-Star clip for any considerable length of time. Also, there have been way too many defensemen to come into the league with great fanfare and proceed to do nothing much offensively (Larsson, Hedman, Gilroy, etc.).
July 05, 2012
Votes: +0

angus said:

angus
... Sf - Garrison is one of the best defensive defensemen in hockey.

http://blogs.theprovince.com/2012/07/03/garrison-quiet-force-to-be-reckoned-with/

July 05, 2012 | url
Votes: +0

Leafs2014 said:

TrueNorth
... I actaully just aquired Ovy in my league for Jonas Hiller, Marian Gaborik and my first pick 11th overall out of 12.
July 05, 2012
Votes: +0

Sportfreunde said:

Sportfreunde
Johansen RyJo put on 15 lbs? Is that even possible within this time-span?

I dunno about the stats but I still see Garrison as having an avg defensive game, willing to be proved wrong though.
July 05, 2012
Votes: +0

leaftodd said:

leaftodd
Ovi I own Ovi in both my leagues. I would take Giroux for him 1 for 1 in both i believe but only because they are both cap leagues and that extra money goes far.

If they were cap leagues i wouldn't take any of those options.
July 05, 2012
Votes: +0

sanstanya said:

sanstanya
Garrison It seems like the same people gushing over the "great value" of contracts like Bryan Allens are nit-picking the Garrison contract apart and I am confused by it. I like Allen, but through observation and advanced stats I think Garrison is as good defensively, and for the past 2 years has been at the very high end in the league, far from a dime-a-dozen 2 million dollar typical #4-5 that folks are describing adn comparing him to (he was 1/2 of one of the best shutdown tandems in the league 2 years ago with Mike Weaver of all people).

So I guess the 1st point is: he is far better defensively than he is being given credit for, while folks over-focus on the unlikeliness of reproducing his offensive totals.

And unlike Allen, he offers the real possibility of offensive production. If Allen, with zero chance of ever scoring 5 goals in a season is worth 3.5, how is an equal defender with the possibility of producing as well not worth an extra million a year? Even if Garrison never scores 16 again, which I doubt he does, hitting 8-10 would be a boon. What's more, without reghistering on the scoreboard at all he can create opportunities due to both his skillset directly, as well as the adjustment opponents have to make (that they don't have to make vs. a guy like Allen), that warrant valuation.

So the 2nd point is: if a high end defensive specialist is worth 3.5, there must be some incremental value to offensive ability.

A further consideration is that people are frequently comparing the contract to other's signed 3+ years ago, failing to consider what has chanegd with respect to the cap (and the contract's proportion thereof) and the market in general. Most of those guys would be getting big raises if they signed this year instead of a few years ago when the cap was much lower. It is a market with incredible inflation that fans always seem to be 2-5 years behind in their understanding or acceptance of.

If Garrison can be half as productive on the scoreboard while being a Hamhuis-like defensive anchor, perhaps freeing up Edler to do his thing (which he only fully does when playing with a true anchor that he trusts) this contract will no doubt be full value. In fact, the value of full-blown Edler vs tentative, confused, why-is-Bieksa-my partner-and-what-is-he-doing-way-over-there Edler might be the ultimate measure of the contract at the end of the day.

That said I'm not a fan of NTC clauses, for anyone other than a team's elite core few. That part is bush.
July 05, 2012
Votes: +0

angus said:

angus
... Face - I agree, Eriksson and Benn were great together. Just thinking they may get split up again to spread the attack out. Just ideas. An Eriksson-Benn-Jagr line makes a ton of sense, too.

July 05, 2012 | url
Votes: +0

angus said:

angus
... Derek Roy isn't a bad defensive player, sentium. He has averaged over 1:30 on the PK in the most recent four seasons, too. He was acquired by Dallas for his two-way play, not just his offense.

I'll give you Ryder, but again it wouldn't be a "defensive" line, just one with less of a pure offensive role.

July 05, 2012 | url
Votes: -2

Face said:

Face
Benn- Eriksson These two have been the first line for the better part of the last two years. Doubtful they will be split up and they will most assuredly play with Jagr. Part of the reason Joe went after Jagr was his play with Giroux last year. The hope is that he can do the same for these two.
Roy plays a hell of a lot more defense than Ribeiro did which will take some of the difficult minutes away from Benn. Last year Benn played in all situations because Ribs didn't.
Morrow will be pushed to the third line where he belongs. Surprisingly the lines in Dallas make sense. Should be interesting
July 05, 2012
Votes: +0

buffalosoldier66 said:

Sheepdogged
Wild I think you are going to see a lot more of Granlund on the wing. There is a lot of talk here in Minnesota about Koivu and Granlund playing together which makes sense since they played a lot together in Finland. And it remains to be seen how Bouchard bounces back this upcoming season but if he is healthy half way through the season I bet/hope he gets traded.
July 05, 2012
Votes: +0

sentium said:

Dakkster
... Since neither Ryder nor Roy play a lick of defense, how is that a two-way unit?
July 05, 2012
Votes: +1

Dobber said:

Dobber
... To make that money, you need to be:
1. Adam Foote
2. score 10-12 minimum

And since Garrison is
1. not Adam Foote, Bryan Allen at best.

He was overpaid. You yourself, Angus, said beforehand that based on advanced stats (which you may be leaning on too strongly) he was worth $3.5-$4. I'll buy that. But that's saying $4.6 is $600,000 too high, by any standard (even yours). And the term is nuts.

But, if he truly is the second coming of Adam Foote and chips in 10 goals a year, he's a steal by Year 4 at that price. I wouldn't have offered that contract to him, but I have a lot of respect for Mike Gillis so I'll take a leap of faith.

Nice ramblings, very solid
July 05, 2012
Votes: +0

OceanMon said:

OceanMon
Thanks Great ramblings, Angus.
July 05, 2012
Votes: +0

Ryan Ma said:

Maaaasquito
Garrison I'm more with you than with Dobber on Garrison...

But with that said, I think it'll depend on how he'll be utilized by the Nucks which will determine the value of his contract.

If you look at the depth charts. They have Edler, Bieksa, Hamhuis, Garrison, Ballard, Alberts and Tanev...

Lets knock Alberts and Tanev out of the equation, so you're left with 5 D.

Garrison put up great numbers in FLA because he was given the green light. 23:41 and 2:31 on the PP also reeling off 33 points, 127 hits, 124 BS and 168 SOG while being a great secondary complement to Brian Campbell... So that enabled him to become a "solid defenseman" cause he was given plenty of opportunity.

Now if you look at a similar case in Ballard (09-10). 22:24 and 1:58 on the PP while reeling off 28 points, 156 hits, 201 BS and 90 SOG, while he was a great complement to McCabe as the number 2 that year. He was largely considered a great 2-way guy ready to bust out...

He goes to the Nucks as a #6, suddenly he drops to 15:54 with 0:12 on the PP. 7 points, 99 hit, 111 BS and 53 SOG. He suddenly becomes a very overpaid #6 for Vancouver.

The depth charts have cleared up a bit with the departure of Salo, but I still don't think that Garrison will leapfrog Edler, Bieksa or Hamhuis on the offensive front, which leaves him competing with Ballard for the #4 slot... Now if he's given a lot of the PP TOI that Salo leaves behind (2:45), and produces, then his contract is well worth it, but if that time goes to Bieksa and Hamhuis, Garrison could end up in a situation much like Ballard being overpaid and not bringing a lot to his position.
July 05, 2012
Votes: -1

Brady19 said:

Brady19
... I was thinking the same thing about Fiddler when I read that. Thanks for bringing the numbers out to back it up!
July 05, 2012
Votes: +0

Ryan Ma said:

Maaaasquito
Fiddler I disagree about him being poor defensively... 22nd in SHFOW along the same lines as Boyle, Belanger and Kesler. I think he's one of the best defensive centers out there and also one of the best PKers as well. 67 BS also ranks him 18th amongst all forwards in that department.

He's your prototypical 3rd line center.

July 05, 2012
Votes: +0

Ryan Ma said:

Maaaasquito
Morrow Morrow would be a better fit in a 2-way line than Ryder wouldn't he? 2.28 hits per game and could be more of a physical presence than Ryder.
July 05, 2012
Votes: +0

Fast Tony DeNiro said:

Fast Tony DeNiro
Garrison The question I have, is if Garrison hadn't scored 16 goals last year, is there any way he gets 4.6 per year? I highly highly doubt it, so if the Canucks aren't expecting the offense from him, he seems highly overpaid to me.

Yes he's a very good defensive guy. So are a lot of other players, and they make 2 million. It's not a terrible signing because with that shot, he definitely has the ability to chip in some offense. But I do think they signed him for at least a million too much.
July 04, 2012
Votes: +1

edesjardins said:

edesjardins
Where's Waldo? Michael Ryder on a defensive unit is like seeing pink elephants.
July 04, 2012
Votes: +0
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