Pogge



Despite the recent acquisition of the best goalie coach in the business, the Leafs decided to divest themselves of Justin Pogge, a 23-year-old goalie prospect, once deemed the Buds goalie of the future.

 

Going back three summers, Leafs GM John Ferguson Jr. needed a veteran goalie immediately. He traded Tuukka Rask to Boston for Andrew Raycroft. How different things would be if the Leafs had traded Pogge instead of Rask? Actually, Boston had no interest in Pogge and specifically wanted Rask. But in Toronto, most fans felt they had a young goalie already and one who led Canada to the promised land at the 2006 World Junior Championships. The frustration of parting with a first round goalie was offset by the 'good Canadian boy' in the system. One wonders about the hue and cry if Boston had asked for Pogge instead of Rask. Would there have been a lot more noise and a much greater backlash?

Regardless, having a Canadian prospect in the organization helped Ferguson Jr. trade an elite goalie taken in the first round behind only Carey Price. The fact that Boston's scouts had no interest in Pogge, that Rask was a year younger and that he was drafted 69 picks ahead of Pogge (albeit in a different draft) seemed to get overlooked by Torontonians who were blinded by nationalism.

This is not revisionism. At the time, I was livid at the trade despite many repeated attempts by others consoling me with visions of Pogge dancing with the Stanley Cup. Toronto's outrage at Ferguson Jr. should have been much greater, but he played the nationalist card and won the PR battle.

Canadians are not the only ones to suffer from hockey nationalism. Yahoo uber-blogger Greg Wyshynski recently re-tweeted a Twitter comment that Jeremy Roenick wouldn't go to the Hall of Fame because he was American and not Canadian. Wyshynski, an American, appears to feel that there is a pro-Canadian bias in hockey. That may be true but he revealed his own pro-American bias by bringing the subject to the attention of others.

If my American Facebook friends are any indication, David Booth is the second coming of Cam Neely. A number of them have been positively orgasmic over Booth's potential and his inclusion at the American Olympic camp. For someone who turns 25 in November, has one 60 point season under his belt and has an upside of 75 points, nationalism has taken hold and rationalism has been thrown out the window.  

These nationalist biases - especially for the mid-level player - can really hurt poolies. The Malkins, the Parises and the Crosbys of this world are usually going to be priced fairly because demand is so high. It's the 55-70 point players that we are more likely to over-pay for. If you are in a pool with Canadians expect to pay anywhere from 5-10% more for a Canadian (a little less if it's an American) than you would a European. It's simply human nature.

 


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Jocular Hockey Manager said:

JHM
100 Game rule Some 10 years or more ago, I decided that if a skater played his 100th game in the AHL, that it was a kiss of death. This has evolved some in recent times. Detroit doesn't play the game like that and other teams are following. Not sure what I think the cutoff is. This article makes much good sense. We are now fully into the NHL Cap era. I wonder that this will 'change the rules' yet once again. Anisomov... well, I still wonder who the Rangers will dress if he doesn't spend the season in their top 6.
September 05, 2009
Votes: +0

The Comish said:

The Comish
... Interesting subject matter Stu!

I know nearly every NHL player's nationality. Why? I'm not completely sure other than deep down I am a geek. I think it's a throwback to the old stereotype days when there was a difference between north american and euro players. Now the lines are blurred. For me watching Peter Forsberg play unlike any Swedeheart that I'd seen before broke the stereotype. How do you explain Chara? He's no Special Agent Peter Bondra, that's for sure. Or Ovechkin. Or Holmstrom...etc.

I think where a player comes from is near the bottom of things to consider in fantasy hockey, but it's likely not irrelevant. I know I passively track these things, but I also passionately follow international hockey.

Oh Lanky, you are priceless and I don't mean that in a hockey pool Price less way either. How come you chose 3 Americans (Rafalski, Hainsey and Guerin) and one Canadian (Getzlaf) as your examples? Funny guy!
August 25, 2009
Votes: +0

Top Secret said:

Les Nordiques
Uni-dimensional Excuse the masses Slantman. Sometimes your readers lack the patience and revel in a hunger for the latest and greatest fantasy news. Your last article was smart and should/could be used strategically in future drafts.

But the masses will always opt for their "booth" and so they should. Meanwhile, I'm working on acquriing the next coming of Slava Kozlov.

Salute

Les Nordiques
August 25, 2009
Votes: +1

STONE. said:

STONE.
... The only time I see this patriotism taking place is when Canadian players do well in the World Juniors and suddenly their value seems to skyrocket. I'm not sure it has much relevance otherwise.
August 24, 2009
Votes: +0

notoriousjim said:

notoriousjim
... the KHL has only been a real threat for 2 years now and in year 1 they took Jagr, Rads and Emery. Those 3 were universally owned. this year there have been no really big names (and emery came back) but it is not really a big deal for elite players.

The fear is about the guys we all admit to being homers for, guys who are in bench. those guys that in the nhl and are boarderline 2nd liners are the guys we are afraid of leaving.
August 23, 2009
Votes: +0

Slantman said:

Slantman
... Believe me Pudge, I understand all of the anti-Leaf sentiment out there. I used the Leaf example because I wanted a story to illustrate nationalist bias and I happen to live in Toronto and am more familiar with them than other teams. The more I've gotten into fantasy pools the less favouritism I have for teams, countries of origin, style of play etc. It's now all about points for me and after 15 years of pooling and 5 years in a competitive keeper league this was a reminder to focus on the bottom line. Nationalism in hockey pools is very subtle and I must emphasize that it doesn't occur among elite players but for players further down the depth chart I see it happen all the time. As for the KHL - It was definitely taken into consideration but so far the only significant Russian to defect to the KHL has been Radulov. Zherdev won't end up there this year - just watch!
August 23, 2009
Votes: +0

Ludo said:

August 23, 2009
Votes: +0

Rad64 said:

Rad64
... Regardless of the feedback, it is an interesting topic and I would have to agree that many poolies (if not all) value players more from their favorite teams, home country, city, state, etc... It's human nature...and something to take advantage of by a smart poolie!! Then again, it feels good to get ahold of a favorite player or two, even if you have to overpay. That adds to the fun factor.
August 22, 2009
Votes: +1

pudge said:

pudge
... Why on earth do we want a story on why the leafs suck for trading raask and why leaf fans are dumb for not complaining when it happened?

The nationalism that you're describing takes place on a smaller city scale called homerism... and the worst offenders are the leafs... please don't give the front page to leafs sob stories about prospects that didn't pan out... there are hundreds of players worthy of an article out there.

smilies/grin.gif
August 22, 2009
Votes: -4

notoriousjim said:

notoriousjim
... We all know the KHL risk for Rueskies.

I am american, and really spend very little time thinking about where skaters come from. When Kane or EJ or Sully or another american turns into an elite player then i will care more, but right now there is not a top 10 american player.

In other sports i care more... i want to see white american players do well in the NBA since there are none.
August 22, 2009
Votes: -1

lanky said:

lanky
... I pride myself on not knowing much about a player's country of origin lol... I know very little about where players are from outside of "North America" vs. "The rest of the world."

I mean i know pat kane is american, and that ej's american, but i only know that because i believe it was the first time in history that americans were drafted no1 overall in two consecutive years... I know crosby's canadian. What's more important to me though, is that i know that pat kane is undersized (and possibly more injury prone because of that), ej's an idiot when it comes to alcohol and golf, and crosby's a little b*tch. Those things apply to my fantasy pool a little bit more directly then where the player happened to be pushed out of his mothers vagina.

brian rafalski...? dunno
hainsey...? dunno
billy guerin...? dunno

heck i couldn't even tell you what nationality getzlaf is haha.

at the end of the day, it doesn't matter to me. just another thing for silly people to get caught up on in fantasy pools.
August 22, 2009
Votes: +0

kevinsane said:

kevinsane
Anything But A Leaf! I don't care WHAT country a guy is from, and never have. I'd take Kevin Spacey from K-PAX if he could run a power play. I have NEVER drafted a Maple Leaf, and never will! I hate them enough that I'd rather finish second than win with a Leaf. If one of my keepers were to be traded there, I'd have to live with it, but I'd never take a goalie, as I'd have to root for a Leaf win. Ugh.
I'm in a pool with Stu, actually, and he knows his hockey! In all seriousness, the only players I shy away from are young Russians on entry level contracts. Too much of a KHL flight risk. I've lost Hudler, and don't want to have to go through that every year.
Good job, Stu!
August 22, 2009
Votes: +0

ricknashsucks said:

sexymountain
... i am asian so i guess i have no biases except for richard park and yutaka fukufuji.
August 22, 2009
Votes: +0

refarls9 said:

refarls9
Booth Booth is a nice player, but I'm way more interested in Kane, Kessel, Ryan, Stastny, etc. I'm surprised that some American fans are 'orgasmic' over him, I've never seen it in the online communities that I visit.
August 22, 2009
Votes: +0

Aaron27 said:

Aaron27
... One reason why I personally sometimes charge slightly more for North American born players is because there is far less KHL risk haha. Fact is not many players go there, but right now I have Zherdev, Hudler and Radulov on one of my fantasy teams.
August 22, 2009
Votes: +0

Pasha said:

Pasha
An interesting observation I run two fantasy leagues. All of the owners in both of them are ex-Soviets (some live in the U.S., but most do in Russia). I don't think most of us value Russian players more because of their origin. If anything, we're very much aware of the KHL defection danger. :-)

But then again, one of the owners, a very nice young lady from St Petersburg, did try to assemble an all-European team in the first season. That team didn't fare very well, and her ethnic experiment was abandoned since. :-)
August 22, 2009
Votes: +0
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