Spezza and Toews

 

Spezza vs. Toews

What started as an innocent email from a reader has grown into a full-blown debate. In a keeper league that counted only points, who would you rather own? Jason Spezza of the Ottawa Senators or Jonathan Toews of the Chicago Blackhawks. It is my position that Spezza is the better player to own, but that is clearly the opinion of the minority, given the overwhelming response.

 

 

One of the dissenters was McKeen’s contributor and old friend of DobberHockey Gus Katsaros. He suggested creating a piece on the subject, giving our different viewpoints. I thought it was a good idea, and so without further ado – Spezza vs. Toews…

 

Katsaros: Jonathan Toews

 

 

Take the natural goal scorer over playmakers; simple as that.

 

 

Without bona fide snipers, playmakers suffer dips in overall numbers and rely heavier on offense by committee. Playmakers don’t make elite goal scorers – someone has to put the puck in the net – they do however have the ability to make a 15-goal scorer surpass the 20 mark, a small consolation.

 

 

Look no further than Dany Heatley (53-30-26-56) and struggles of former linemate Jason Spezza (31-6-14-20), while his new playmaker pivot, Joe Thornton (53-13-54-67) is rejuvenated enough to top the 100 point plateau (and named to the Canadian Olympic team) once again after a steady decline over three season (coincidentally following the decline of Jonathan Cheechoo and his scoring prowess from a 56-goal campaign in 2005-06).

 

 

Playmakers need goal scorers to succeed with elite numbers; they don’t improve on elite scorer’s ability and point totals. (See Kessel vs. Savard analysis)

 

 

Chicago Blackhawks pivot, Jonathan Toews, while not considered a bona fide sniper, translates quick hands, elite stick handling and a decent shot into potential 30-goal seasons, while surrounded by a cast of gifted shooters, almost three lines deep.

 

 

The end results are a supplement to assist totals, giving him a 70-80 point potential most seasons, at the tender age of 21, he still has a little more upside if he continues to drive the net, while bringing the same work ethic game-in/game-out. There are peripheral characteristics in winning one-on-one battles and retrieving pucks from corners that is superior to that of Spezza’s ethic, a clear indication his helpers are accredited to his work, rather than playmaking ability and being surrounded by the likes of snipers in Marian Hossa, Patrick Kane, Patrick Sharp and lesser lights like Kris Versteeg and the injured Dave Bolland (he’s a center, too, though so time is limited to PP.)

 

 

Despite the lack of production from Spezza in an injury-plagued 2009-10, not having Heatley riding shotgun is having an effect. The Ottawa pivot has to redefine himself, and prove his worth than just a puck caddy to a sniper. Daniel Alfredsson, Milan Michalek and Alex Kovalev exhibit individual puck skills that don’t mirror the scoring ability of a natural sniper and in turn bring down his assist totals.

 

 

While he does have a 30-goal potential each season, the lack of an elite sniper reduces his totals to a similar potential to that of Toews in the 70-80 point range. In the past three seasons, Spezza’s shot totals have gone from 162 to 210 to 246 last season. He’s shooting more, and seemingly using less playmaking ability .. a direct hit to his helpers totals.

 

 

In the end, from a pure points standpoint, either player is a decent enough choice in a similar points range. The guiding difference may be in other categories such as plus/minus, PIM’s and shots-on-goal that determines which player contains higher value in individual leagues.

 

 

But goals are hard to come by in reality, and that make Toews a natural choice over Spezza in fantasy.

 

 

Dobber: Jason Spezza

 

 

A common trap that poolies fall into is the “what have you done for me lately” one. That’s the same trap that caused us to underrate Brad Richards last summer and is causing us to overrate Henrik Sedin (for his production) and Marian Gaborik (for his durability) today. What we see is Jonathan Toews on pace for 69 points one year after finishing with the same number. We see a 21-year-old on a powerhouse team that pushes offense. We also see Jason Spezza on pace for 38 points one year after finishing with 73. We see a 26-year-old on an overachieving (your words, not mine) team that stresses two-way play over the run-and-gun.

 

 

Don’t fall into this trap.

 

 

I’ll tackle the main arguments one by one.

 

 

Toews is on the way up, whereas Spezza has peaked.

 

 

This was an actual point brought up to me by a reader. Again I am reminded of “what have you done for me lately”. It’s not often that a player reaches 92 points at the age of 24 and then never gets close to that number again. In fact, has it ever happened? Well, Brad Richards had 91 points at the age of 25 and hasn’t been back there since, but – wait a minute – he’s looking like a lock to get there this year. I guess you could use Eric Staal as an example – but do we really believe he won’t get back up there at some point? A player’s peak years are between the ages of 26 to 32, so while Toews is indeed on the way up – so is Spezza. He’s learning to play a more complete game, much like Vincent Lecavalier did the year before exploding for his career high.

 

 

Spezza gets injured a lot.

 

So does Toews. While Spezza averages just over 10 games missed per season, Toews averages eight.

 

 

 

Spezza loses Heatley, while Toews plays with three lines of awesomeness in Chicago

 

 

I’m not interested in linemates here. When it comes to players of elite caliber, as these two are, then the linemates won’t make more of a difference than five or maybe 10 points. When they’re already up around 70 or 80 points or more, another five is a pretty small amount percentage-wise. So what are these players capable of without considering linemates? That is to say – what can they do on their own?

 

 

Toews has always been billed as an elite all-around center. A guy who can put up big points, but was also very responsible defensively and a natural leader. His work ethic is impeccable. Players like that rarely get to 90 points, and that’s what we’re discussing here. Henrik Zetterberg is an example of a player who fits that description – but Toews hardly has the razzle-dazzle of a Zetterberg. I cap him at 90 points and as he hits his stride he should be a lock for 70.

 

 

Spezza has always been billed as Mr. Offense. He wasn’t drafted to be a future captain. He wasn’t drafted for his penalty-killing acumen. He was drafted because he is an offensive force. Players like that do not get capped at 90 points. In fact, he’s already topped 90 points. So while he’ll put up some stinkers, such as this year – he’ll also have some monster campaigns. As a fantasy owner, I’ll suffer through one out of every three years of 60 or 65 points just to get that occasional 90 or 95. And I’ll have visions of a 110-point career year, too. That’s where I cap him. Maybe it’s just my gut talking, but if you say to someone that Jason Spezza will get 110 points one season, you may not get laughed at. However, if you say to someone that Jonathan Toews will get 110 points one year, the laughter won’t stop.

 

 

I had the same upside penciled in for Spezza before Heatley as I did during Heatley and now after Heatley. A star linemate certainly helps, no question, but Spezza can get there on his own. Remember that Joe Thornton went to a San Jose team with no big guns on it, and his arrival actually created a big gun in Jonathan Cheechoo. Spezza has that same ability. He could step onto the ice with a bunch of clowns and if one of them was the right fit, then ‘boom’ you have yourself a Rocket Richard winner. Toews can’t do that.

 

 

So while Toews is the better “real” option, Spezza is the better “fantasy” one. Simply for the potential. Players with Toews’ offense are a dime a dozen. Nice and steady, but limited – just like 40 other NHL players. Spezza, while a bit of a wildcard, has the upside that can win a fantasy league – just like…maybe seven or eight other players.

 

 

Gus Katsaros is a scout & fantasy expert for McKeen's Hockey Prospects www.mckeenshockey.rivals.com .. and regular contributor to Maple Leafs Hot Stove: http://mapleleafshotstove.com and Fadoo Hockey http://fadoohockey.com


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Comments (28)add comment

Jocular Hockey Manager said:

JHM
Not Spezza One of the important rules in Fantasy is to remove yourself from injury guys. Spezza fails the health test. Too bad. Spezza, H. Sedin, Backstrom, Thornton, Crosby & Malkin are the only players in the NHL that could potentially collect an assist a game. Spezza has shown he can score. His upper window on 82 games in a great situation is about 120. Yet, I don't want him. You can't count on him.

It is unfair to mark in the upper window for Toews yet. The next step is more than point-a-game. Then we can wonder for 90 and 100. His environment is excellent. How much do the others blossom? Particularly Kane. Should Kane be a 40 goal guy...

Spezza is a commodity that has some clear definition. Highs, lows, pouts, injuries, the ability to setup, to score, to make others around him better... but he seldom does these things.

Toews is on the rise and young enough to graduate to another window of development.

... and we all thought Henrik Sedin was too old to graduate to another level!!!
January 26, 2010
Votes: +0

JBrit said:

JBrit
Bet on Career? Who will finish an equal year career with more points?

If Spezza goes 90, 60, 100, 75, 110, 65..... I think he will undoughtably out point Toews with his 70, 80, 75, 70, 80.... simply because Spezza's down years are only slightly lower then Toews good years, but his up years are far and away higher then Toews any years.
January 25, 2010
Votes: +1

StatsJunkie said:

StatsJunkie
... Dobber, I know we have been through this before but eventually you are going to have to start changing your posts about prime/peak years. The evidence just doesn't back up your opinion or what you said your basis for the prime years is, some school independent study you did 20 years ago.

This is a key component to building any keeper team and you seem to have just pushed the evidence aside.

January 25, 2010
Votes: +0

Guy Incognito said:

Guy Incognito
... I should have said "Let's not pretend that blah blah blah made their respective PLAYMAKERS great" rather than "centres", since this is about playing style rather than position.

And I don't see how Spezza, despite being a great playmaker, is significantly less of a natural goal-scorer than Toews.

I should also self-correct the comment about Murray scoring more than Kessel with Savard - I had already confirmed that I shifted Murray's scoring years forward by accident, and neglected to delete the bit in parentheses. Still, '06-'07 were both great years showing that Savard does not depend on one goal-scorer, as the linked Kessel analysis suggested.
January 25, 2010
Votes: +0

hojusimpson said:

hojusimpson
Thanks for the reply, Dobber I appreciate your comments and you're . . . half-right. The problem was you focused on the 23 and stated this: "The list of players with their peak years at 26 or older is still far far longer than the list of players peaking at 23."

As I wrote the range is 23-26, with a decline coming at 27, it seems you corroborated my post. I would agree that things were different but you said it yourself: In the cap world, players come in younger and younger.

By the way, you've been a big proponent of fourth-year breakouts. For a player to break out after 27, he'd have to come in at 23 and this doesn't happen too often. To use your words, though: There are exceptions to every rule.

I still think this was an entertaining read but I just wanted to clarify some points that have been addressed in the advanced stats community for the past few years.

Oh, and Andrew: You posted a link to BehindtheNet . . . cool. In my first post, when I mentioned Gabriel Desjardins, that's his site.
January 25, 2010
Votes: +0

Guy Incognito said:

Guy Incognito
... reality: Toews
points-only-fantasy: Spezza, easy. Faceoffs and shootouts don't count.

"Playmakers need goal scorers to succeed with elite numbers; they don’t improve on elite scorer’s ability and point totals. (See Kessel vs. Savard analysis)"

Nice and convenient to ignore the fact that Savard was on the other end of this argument when he left Atlanta. "His breakout was a fluke; he'll never repeat this production without an elite winger like Kovalchuk." So he goes to Boston and his assist total increased from 69 to 74. The following year (07-0smilies/cool.gif they dropped, but only to 63, when his leading winger had, I believe, 27 goals. The year after that, Kessel emerged with his 36 goals and Savard's assists remained the same - they did not increase. There are other players in the mix, but from Kovalchuk (elite scorer) to such luminaries as Murray/Sturm/Kobasew, to Kessel (only 36 goals, fewer I think than Murray scored with Savard), Savard's production has been remarkably consistent. If one is to make a case against Savard, they had better bring a larger statistical sample than half of this year to the table.

I believe it is wrong to say that elite playmakers don't improve the numbers of elite scorers, but also wrong to say that elite scorers don't improve the numbers of elite playmakers. Great players will help each other out, but they will also manage great seasons regardless of who they're playing with. And you will always be able to find both playmakers and snipers who benefited more from their linemates than their linemates did from them. Let's not pretend that Bernie Nicholls, Mike Knuble, Kevin Stevens, etc made their respective centremen great.

In short, Spezza's slump is short term. As is Savard's.
January 25, 2010
Votes: +0

Puckhead said:

Puckhead
A WEEKLY H2H FANTASY DEBATE... I thoroughly enjoyed the article, and would love to see this as a weekly debate article on the site. Dobber you can go head to head with some of your various fantasy hockey colleagues on debates that get sent in by the F3 (Fantasy Forum Followers). Then you and your opponent for the week, pick the topic that you feel is debateable, and go at it. Call it Master Debators or what have you, but this would no doubt become one of the most eargerly anticated articles on the site.

Hope you can make it work...

Puck
January 25, 2010
Votes: +0

Andrew said:

duducks
Peak Age? Dobber, I'd love to see you go more indepth on "Peak Years"

A 4 day old article saying the peak age is 25, and decline starts by 27:
http://www.behindthenethockey.com/2010/1/21/1261318/nhl-points-per-game-peak-age

The problem with that article is that it doesn't go indepth enough. None of us really care what the peak age of a 30 point grinder is, when discussing Fantasy Hockey. He doesn't even seperate Forwards and Defensemen (which would lower the peak for forwards even more?).

I've been a believer of the 26-30 range as the peak, but only because that's what I've been told to believe. 23-27 as the peak, vs 26-30 is a pretty big difference. A fantasy relevant number crunch would be great!
January 25, 2010
Votes: +0

cc said:

ccsitdown
Thanks, guys! Thanks for the write-up, guys, it has been a tough year to have a keeper team built around Spezza. Nice to have some discussion to help put it into perspective.
January 24, 2010
Votes: +0

andrewf said:

wendel17
... re: Evan H

Spezza is hardly Danny Briere size. He is 6 3 and 215 pounds, so he in fact has the size to go into the dirty areas like Fischer or stand toe to toe with a big d-man like Pronger....it's not that he CAN'T......more like he WON'T....

The magical 4th year is highly touted on this site.....Toews is next year, it will be interesting to see what happens....
January 24, 2010
Votes: +0

KatsHockey said:

Katshockey
Sorry ... wrong link....
Excuse the additional comment .. put in the wrong link:

http://www.torontosun.com/spor...24626.html

Item is listed under Kessel research
January 24, 2010 | url
Votes: +0

KatsHockey said:

Katshockey
Thanx, Dobber. First, thanx to Dobber for the collaboration! Two minds haven't come together like this since Biggie and Tupac.

"PS: that Kessel vs. Savard analysis complete garbage, all it proved is that in fantasy hockey you can always manipulate stats to prove any point."


As for you, Hoju, how does viewing actual game footage constitute 'manipulating stats to prove any point"? Links are right there in the post to verify. Go nuts and prove me wrong.

Besides, I figure, if an ex-NHL GM tried to appropriate the analysis as his own, it's pretty f'n accurate, no?

http://www.torontosun.com/spor...0836.html


KatsHockey
January 24, 2010 | url
Votes: +0

Shao said:

Shao
... Ovechkin doesn't play defense? What do you define as defense? Not like Datsyuk does, but he often pinches back and makes decent plays. I would not compare him to Spezza or most goal only snipers.
January 24, 2010
Votes: +0

David said:

Leumas
Good argument
"However, if you say to someone that Jonathan Toews will get 110 points one year, the laughter won’t stop."


Yeah Dobs kinda like how if you said last year that H. Sedin would someday get to 100!!


January 24, 2010
Votes: +0

Evan H said:

Big Ev
... and wtf, who considers Jonathan Toews to be a bonafide goal scorer (referring to the guy in the article)? I belive Spezza will even pot 40-50 goals one year, something I think Toews won't do.

and that same argument about Spezza not putting up points if he isn't playing with talented players is not a very good one, since we have yet to see Toews play without Kane, an elite winger, so far in his early career. If Kane were to get injured for a lengthy period of time, let's see how Toews does without him.
January 24, 2010
Votes: +0

Evan H said:

Big Ev
... good points, Tom. I just feel that "heart" is a stupid term and is used too much these days. People say Mike Richards has heart, or Iginla has heart, but I really feel people only say this because of their rough and tumble style of play. I don't use the term, but I think Spezza does care and is passionate about the game, but he doesn't go into the dirty areas as much as Fisher because he CAN'T. He knows he can't compete in those areas so why try? Why make a fool of yourself by going to challenge say a guy like Pronger in the front of the net?
January 24, 2010
Votes: -1

Tom said:

jack_oat67
... Evan H... I don't think I mentioned defense once when I said Spezza plays with no heart.

We're talking his ofensive game only. He's not worth anything if you're talking defense. Ovechkin doesn't play defense either but I would take him on my team anyday. Ovechkin makes things happen, he will go anywhere into any situation to make the play. Spezza, not so much. Ottawa has to rely on Fisher or Alfie for heart. I like all the stats people have mentioned that show just how much Spezza's play drops off when he isn't playing with stars. Elite players find a way to put points on the board. Spezza may have elite talent but until he stops being a spoiled suck and he starts playing with heart he will never be an elite player. I fear the opportunity for change has passed him by.

Toews does play with heart. He has the talent to be a scorer and play with other scorers plus he is reliable defensively and will be on the ice in more situations. He will even get his share of short-handed points. Again... I'll take Toews.
January 24, 2010
Votes: +0

studley49 said:

studley49
... ...oh, Spezza - as a Sens fan, I hate to love him but love to hate him!

I really think he needs a change of scenery: the guy's been through so much in Ottawa and I think that they need new faces to provide audience so the fans can rekindle the fire in Ottawa.

I wouldn't be surprised to see him traded to EDM in a deal similar to the one that Heatley was supposed to be moved in. Albeit, I can actually see the Sens getting a little more in return though thanks to Cogliano's lack of play this year and the Oilers' need to move some other players out.
January 24, 2010
Votes: +0

Evan H said:

Big Ev
Spezza I'll take Spezza every time. Toews is not even a 90 point player while SPezza has shown in the past that he is capable of putting up 100. Spezza is just better than Toews offensively, and I think he is going to put up 90 points for the next 5 years or so (excluding this season).

Injuries have plagued him this season, and that is the reason that he got off to such a slow start (along with the point below). The Olympics will give him even more of a rest than he has already had, and I think he will do very well the rest of the year.

and to say he doesn't have heart because he doesn't play well defensively is a joke. Just because defense isn't one of his great skills doesn't mean he doesn't care. He has tried very hard to refine his game and to try to become a more two-way player. I think it was Dobber who said this before, but his season is kinda like Vinny Lecavalier's a couple of years ago. Look what Vinny did 2 years ago after refining his game.

Toews reminds me of Mike Richards, who I don't think will become a 100 point player, while Spezza is more like an Eric Staal or a Joe Thornton. I think it is not impossible that Spezza can put up 100 in the near distant future.
January 24, 2010
Votes: +0

praba said:

praba
... This pretty much comes down to upside. Do you want to take the safe bet, or the guy that has the higher ceiling? What if spezza was on Chicago and toews was on the sens? spezza's numbers would be pretty nice if he was on chicago too. NHL gms would much rather have toews, but i think it's fairly close for fantasy gms.

players that excel defensively will tend to have lower ceilings than players that can't play defence as good. jordan staal is a prime example. his upside would be much higher if he was used in a more offensive role for the pens.

for me, the decision depends what type of league i am in. if it is points only...i think i'll go spezza. if it is a league that counts salaries, i go toews. if it is a league that counts playoffs i go toews. if i am at the bottom of the standings, i go spezza. so what i am trying to say is, if you are trying to decide between these two, you got to pick the player that will benefit your team more. do you need constant reliable scoring? or can you afford to take a gamble that could pay off huge?
January 24, 2010
Votes: +0

mike hess said:

SharkMeat
stats look I don't believe age matters in a comparison it is all about delivering points. I measure ratios weekly to see trends. You have to keep the emotion out of your fantasy moves. I dropped oJoikenin last month and picked up Connolly while I honestly believe Joikenin is a less injury prone player, the trend was in Connolly's favor.
I would argue that looking at the fantasy stats last year the two were equal if you ignore +- because Spezza plays on a defensively challenged team. Take fantasy points and divide by number of games played. I always add in a factor for linemates and PP ice time. Potential as a factor is tough to measure so ya you might give Spezza a + except his team is not putting up wins or goal tending and that drives potential performance too. I think you should factor in the age and Spezza is more likely to have injury and that balances out the potential issue. This year clearly Spezza is trending down and Toews is on his way up. Spezza will do 44 points this year and Toews does 70 according to the midyear view.


Mike
January 24, 2010
Votes: +0

Mabus said:

mabus
... Hi Dobber,

Yes, if you look hard enough, you can always find examples to prove or disprove almost any argument. If you love to argue, it's great to also love statistics. My dislike of Spezza stems from the 2007-08 season - it was the year I decided that he was just hanging onto Heatley's coat tails. They started out the season strong, both between 1.1 and 1.3 points per game. On Oct. 27, Spezza got injured for almost a month - and Heatley's points per game increased from 1.1 to 1.3. Spezza returned, and they resumed their tear - with points per game of 1.5 and 1.4. Then, Heatley got injured on January 12 and missed a month. Spezza's points per game plummeted to 0.8 for the month. When Heatley returned, Spezza immediately jumped back to a point per game for the remainder of the season. Even in Spezza's best ever season, he had a month where he produced at a 67 point full season pace for the month Heatley was out. That was my sign that this guy was a fraud. A sign I've stuck with ever since. I'll continue to think he is more like Nedved, John Cullen or Rob Brown until I see something to show me otherwise.

Mabus
January 24, 2010
Votes: +0

Dobber said:

Dobber
... Remember gentlemen, Spezza's team was a powerhouse three years ago. To pick Toews for his team could mean a huge disappointment in three years.

Mabus - exceptions to every rule. Nice examples. I could list the star players who DIDN'T peak at age 24, but I don't want people scrolling for 10 minutes to get to the end of that list.

hoju and peaks - not an outdated notion at all. My study showed that the peak was 28-31 a decade ago. I have adjusted that for this article and will now say 26-32. The salary cap brings the average age down, and subsequently the age of maturity (i.e. "peak") down with it. But technology brings the longevity of players up (and subsequently how long they can perform at peak levels). Look no further than Ray Whitney, Tomas Kaberle, Vincent Lecavalier, etc. The list of players with their peak years at 26 or older is still far far longer than the list of players peaking at 23.


Great discussion. That's what I wanted.
January 24, 2010
Votes: +0

Mabus said:

mabus
Age 24 Funny about the age 24. Didn't Gretzky set the NHL record for points (215) as a 24 year old - 20 points more than his 25 year old season and 40 more than any other season for the rest of his career. What about Lemieux - didn't he hit his career high (199) as a 24 year old? A number he was never 39 points from? How abut this for a quick list of guys that peaked by 26 never reached what they did as a 24 year old afterwards - Neely (92), Roenick (107), Recchi (123), Elias (96), Kariya (101), Nedved (99) and Fedorov (120). I guess Nedved is the perfect analogy to your question - 99 points in a perfect situation on Pittsburgh, then never got back above 78 without Heatley/Alfredsson ... er I mean Lemieux/Jagr.

ps. Spezza sucks.

mabus
January 24, 2010
Votes: +0

hojusimpson said:

hojusimpson
... Dobber, I personally knew Spezza and am a big supporter of his. There are a few points you didn't touch on that are contributing to his lack of production this year but it is my expectation he'll finish strong and come around next season.

As for Toews, I like him as a player and think he's in a Mike Richards situation: He loves the dirty game, and his coaches have known this, so his counting totals suffer for it. To be fair, Richards puts up the bigger numbers at the moment, but I do stress "at the moment."

The real reason I'm writing this is your belief hockey players reach their peak between the ages of 26-32 and this is an outdated notion. Peak years (for forwards) are approximately 23-26 with 27 being the typical age of decline. Noticeable decline begins around 30. To finish my thought, the age of 37 is (again typically) the point of no return.

True, this doesn't always hold for the elite but, on average, this is accurate.

Note: While many, such as Gabriel Desjardins, have published work on this, check out Alan Ryder's work to see further studies.

Otherwise, this was a fun read -- I'd love to see some more head-to-head battles like this. Good job, guys.
January 24, 2010
Votes: +0

D M said:

saywhaaaaat
... Dobber: "pezza, while a bit of a wildcard, has the upside that can win a fantasy league..."

Spezza definitely has more upside, but I'd take Toews ten times out of ten. Better team, more consistent, doesn't revert to pouting and sucking.

Seems like two totally different arguments, in fact. "Who's better" vs. "who has the higher upside."
January 24, 2010
Votes: +1

slufoot said:

slufoot
Spezza every time In a points only league, playmakers will come out on top every time. Assists are easier to come by for the simple fact that they award 2 for every goal. And in the absence of an elite goal-scorer, elite playmakers with offensive instincts like Spezza need to simply shoot more to offset the loack of converts by teammates. Even if they don't score, teammates often pop home a rebound and they get their assist that way.
PS: that Kessel vs. Savard analysis complete garbage, all it proved is that in fantasy hockey you can always manipulate stats to prove any point.
January 24, 2010
Votes: +0

Tom said:

jack_oat67
Not Spezza-l Sorry Dobber, gotta go with Gus. Toews is my man. Although Spezza has talent, he has no heart. He does not play with heart, he won't push for the extra point, he won't go to areas to get the puck, he gives up on his team and sulks when the coach won't play him with certain team-mates. He's a playmaker that needs a finisher. No finisher... no points... cause he certainly won't fight for them himself. Toews is the man.
January 24, 2010
Votes: +0
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